[hayden]

Unlike the BlackBerry 8100 Pearl, pics, specs and launch details of the BlackBerry 8800 slipped from RIM's grasp a lot sooner than most would expect. In fact, as early as August 8800 info started to trickle down. Then in September a host of photos hit the web by storm. Companies such as Samsung (Blackjack) and Motorola (Norman) were smiling ear-to-ear as it was just what they had hoped for!

RIM's original market, where they created the very first 'Crackberry' addicts was with QWERTY. Yes, it was their first phone-enabled qwerty 5810 that started it all back in early 2002. Recently with Samsung's Blackjack launched around the same time as RIM's Cingular Pearl and also before the Blackberry 8800 of which I've learnt will launch earlier than original plans. There’s a lot more details we've received as of yesterday, some surprising. However, PinStack’s aim is NOT to have Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, Microsoft etc smiling any more than they have been since August or before. We will only share what's already out there, at least until official launch dates are released.

A lot will be riding on the shoulders of the BlackBerry 8800 launch! RIM's QWERTY market share or the market share that Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, Microsoft etc are starving for is at a crucial point. BlackBerry's PUSH isn't as unique as in past years and the 8800 will have to deliver more than ever on the basics that RIM perfected in the 7200 and 8700 series; general reliability, OS stability, battery longevity, seamless email services, durability and ease of use. Once launched, will RIM maintain its grip on the QWERTY Corporate Market? Will they be able to compete with the Blackjack which seems to be drafting in consumers to the QWERTY market? How about the Motorola Norman will it make the jump to US shores or maybe after some modifications already in progress?

Let's compare the latest QWERTY market offerings with coming 8800's:

8800 leaked on the "net" September but most likely circulated weeks/months before.



8800 & Samsung Blackjack

[BCoop8184]

I think something that shouldn't be over looked is BB's OS. While windows mobile is attractive to many consumers, its still slow, clunky, and incredibly unreliable. I believe this is something that will keep current customers and convert others who might be fed up with windows mobile.

[UH8ME]

My vote will always be with the BB!!! It's the hands down leader!

[mrcsbrooks]

I think bb will still maintain its market and even increase with its release of the 8800.

I would have to say this based of off a couple factors. These days the average smartphone user in the consumer market needs functionality, a stable os, a great calender, and for the most a camera/mp3 player.

Bb has had these features, for quite awhile. And with the pearl recently added to the arsenal, it now puts rim, and now us (as users) in a whole new bracket with consumers.

Just as the pearl did, it drew a lot of attention back to rim products. I belive the 8800 will as well. Its nice to know that samsung, motorola, and nokia are trying to catch on. But in the end, as long as rim strives to to feed us crackberry users. I'm pretty sure even we alone will steer attention to rim, as passionate we are about our bb!

Ps. Crackberries Rule!!!

[mdspriggs]

~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~I believe the functionality and ergonomics of the BB's overshadow anything that the other manufaturers may have. The OS is much more user friendly and much less likely to "crash", as any windows mobile user will tell you. As long as RIM continues incorporate imaging, expansion slots, multimedia capability, etc. into the BB, I don't see why they could not gain even more marketshare! I switched from a windows mobile pda to the 8700, mainly because of the querty keyboard and stable OS.

[oppiTronic]

~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~
For companies the decision should be easy. A BB device is 24x7 secure connected to the company network and a 100% slave. It is the perfect mobile work device. No other device offers the same possibilities and security.
It might now start to look stylish and like all the other toys, but it is value for the money with ROI.

[chris93372]

Companies still have the best integration with BES and calendaring, but it's tough to fight the WinMob juggernaut - Palm is just hanging on, and if it weren't for 3rd party apps from DataViz that allow it to read/edit Word/Excel attachments, it would have been history already. I wish there was a bundled product that RIM would offer that allows editing of MS Office docs - then it would be an absolute no-brainer for me. I'm using Palm OS now, and staving off the next Smartphone purchase until the 8800 comes out - I already know it will come down to the 8800 and a WinMob product....

[CoolFinalFan]

BlackBerry all the way!!

[LLPRODENT]

Bb All The Way Moto Is Good But There Phones Have So Many Problems Bb Bb Bb And Hurry Ha Ha

[DrWoo]

One of the things that you have to consider is this.....

In order for the "newer" blackberries to be successfull, people that in the field selling all of these phones have to be behind the product as well. RIM, is starting to shift is previous focus (bussiness customers) to the newer focus which is younger, soccer moms, and small bussiness owners.

You have to consider that the windows OS has been around on PDA's for a long time, (including before they were in phones). The windows OS while clunky, and generally unstable, is something that consumers have just "gotten used to".

Basically, the people in the field actually selling these things are the ones that are going to make or break the newer models of blackberries. I'm a blackberry owner, (8700c), I'm also a store manager of a cingular. So, while I will continue to sell blackberries over windows, I do think that not everyone will convert that easily. The addition of multimedia is a huge step in the right direction. But if the developers don't catch on, then it's doomed.

Just my .02

Dr. Woo

[0siris]

I think some of the... not really shortcomings... maybe design decisions is a better term... of the Blackberry are going to start coming into play. The Blackberry architecture still doesn't do file storage, there's no file structure for storing (for example) Excel Spreadsheets and PDF's. *And* to be able to attach these to emails right from the device itself...

I get several calls every week from I.T.-savvy people seeking this, as well as remote control/access software. All of that comes on a WinMob device out of the box. That's significant.

Significant *enough* to signal a sea change in market share? That I don't know. But as a Blackberry support rep, I hear just enough calls to consider that a chink in RIM's armor.

[bcuzi8paintchips]

Originally Posted by BCoop8184 I think something that shouldn't be over looked is BB's OS. While windows mobile is attractive to many consumers, its still slow, clunky, and incredibly unreliable. I believe this is something that will keep current customers and convert others who might be fed up with windows mobile.

I've NEVER had either slow OR reliability issues with the MS platform. I prefer the BB over MS due to its simplicity.

[banker]

Another thing to consider is that BES supports Lotus Domino as well as Exchange. Since my company uses Lotus Domino, we aren't going to purchase GoodLink in addition to BES just to support Windows Mobile devices. GoodLink just started supporting Domino this summer, so they are pretty late to the game IMO.

I have had trouble with ActiveSync with every Windows-based PDA or Smartphone I have ever used. I had trouble with Hotsync with the Treo 650 and with other Palm-based PDA's as well. Although ActiveSync and Hotsync have improved on stability over the years, the BB stuff "just works". I spend more time using it and less time tweaking it.

Another reason I think BB continues with a reasonable market share is that there is not that much difference in a Blackjack vs. a Q vs. Treo 700vxw vs. HTC vs. the 14 other Windows Mobile devices either on the market or soon to be on the market. Windows Mobile has turned Smartphones into the same game as PC's - Dell vs. HP vs. Gateway vs. IBM vs. eMachines, etc. They may have different cases and dimensions, but no matter which one you choose, they are all going to have similar capabilities and perform about the same until niche's develop - ie - entry-level, mid-range, high-end. BB offers differentiation in the OS and the way it works. If e-mail is just as rock-solid as its always been and some new capabilities are added to the 8800, I ask myself why would I need to switch or what would I be giving up by staying with a BB? I can't think of much, if anything.

[N8DBB]

If they do feel that they have so much riding on this launch, then RIM will DEFINATELY go with TMobile to launch it first, since Cingular never has their ducks in a row when it comes to launching ANY new device.

[sigmamason]

Customers vote according to data access plan. Bring the plan to $19.99 for BIS and you will have a winner.

[auramae]

I am a lone voice inthe wilderness here, so bear with me as I present a different viewpoint. I am a small business owner. I do not have a server (I am not really sure I know what that is or if I am using the term correctly!) Here's why I will be choosing a PPC over the 8800 (I really thought I wanted the 8800 until I did some soul searching to decide what I really wanted/needed in my device).
HSDPA speed. That's what it boils down to for me. If the 8800 had HSDPA, I would still be considering it. I tested the Blackjack at the Cingular store and got a ripping 980kbps on dslreports.com. What speeds can I expect with the 8800 if all it supports is EDGE? I never knew I was such a speed freak, but I have been "getting by" with 400-650kbps on Verizon's EVDO and I am intoxicated by the higher speeds.

[SRPID]

From what I understand, the 8800 does support the new high-speed 3G network HSPDA.

I have both a 8700c and a BlackJack right now and you are right. Even in Los Angeles I am getting some fast speeds with the BlackJack.

I tried the cingular pearl and it supports 3G. It's fast too. The 8800 is supposed to have the same technology.

We'll see. Regardless, I still may return the blackjack (test driving it for about a week now). I have to admit, it is a cool device. I have to reboot it 10 times a day, but it is a cool device nonetheless.

But if the 8800 is anything like the pearl, then the blackjack is going back, jack. LOL.

Cheers!
SRPID

[mrcsbrooks]

Btw aren't windows mob devices prone to more spyware, and other nasty things?

[DrWoo]

I will still say that it's very important to the success of this launch is the stores/people in the field.

If they are not completly educated on the newer phones. BB is going to get killed. Lets face it, windows is just something that people are just getting used to, whereas bb software is something new to most people out there.

I see phones all day that sell, and others that dont sell... Most of the time the ones that aren't selling isn't because they are bad phones. But, it's because they aren't "cool" or something like that to the person selling it. RIM, needs to look how this is going to be presented to the public and to the people in the field.

Dr. Woo

[BBWrangler]

As a Notes/Domino shop, the Windows Mobile devices are a total non-issue for us, and a dead end for any of our users that want one. With no BBConnect functionality, they're simply not an option for people using something other than Exchange as their corporate mail system.

The BES solution is still the best push email system I've encountered.

Only things I see being an issue for RIM are basically of their own making. They need to make some major improvements in power consumption to increase battery life. I'm hoping the 8800 will use the standard C-S2 battery of the 8700's, not the low capacity one the Pearl is stuck with.

Also, they need to improve the native document viewing ability, and create or work closely with a 3rd party vendor to come up with a solid document editing package. This is one area that Win Mobile and Palm OS are still superior.

Speaking of Palm, RIM could only benefit if they got Palm to actually implement BB Connect on the Treo.


If the Moto devices are anything like the Q, they'll sell like hotcakes, and then people will complain about them and wonder why they bought one in the first place.

They need to keep camera free devices (with all the other improvements/add ons) in their lineup. I still think people don't get how big an issue that is for the business segment.

[6mickey]

~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~
I am a new comer to the superior Blackberry world. I love my phone (8703e). I will get the 8800 if it will come up with a better solution to 3rd party app..And to be able to create files and have a media player not just a mp3.RIM have a chance to get the edge on competators.

I like the way they came up with 2 different models but what u going to do sink or float. Example (700p or 700w) give us a choice.

[kane]

my biggest problem with my BB is the document viewing/editing software or lack of ive had two BB's and the funny thing is ive always had a camera phone and didnt really use it but now that i dont have one i find myself always in need.

[COJO 24]

Well I'm going to agree with all of you and also say that in the future their will possibly be more suretype phones but at the same time there will be new QWERTY phones. This will probably go back and forth between models like the pearl and 8800 are doing. The same bb features and more will be added and overall the phones will stay on the top of the cell phone market.

Just my .02 cents,

COJO 24

[mrcsbrooks]

True indeed I think they will stay afloat with the market. Last time I checked bbs still were priced fairly cheaper than a lot of the newer handsets that are coming out. Sticker shock will also have a lot to do with how bb will retain there market.

[joe allen]

we have converted all but two of our treo users to the bb. the hold out is that ability to view and edit ms office documents out of the box, the camera, and the storage capability. i always read how much bb users don't like cameras on devices, but our treo users want them. they want to be able to store their pictures and documents on removable media. they also like that beaming feature. i used to have a palm and i will admit that the beam feature is very nice.

[NONCHALANT]

Will the 8800 have beaming
?
~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~

[oppiTronic]

Toy or tool? What should be in there? In my opinion the number one feature should be battery life. I you really work with it, it needs to stay up as long a possible. Second it is not only email, it is live interaction with company applications using MDS or self-made stuff. Third, a lot of customers won't let you in with a mobile with integrated cam. And my cheap small digicam takes much better photos than any mobile.
Finally security - the Blackberry is a data-safe. But with too few room, memory extension is a painful need. But only if the control over the data stays in the company, controlled by policies.
I guess RIM needs to have to model lines: Fun and private and robust and secure. Anyway they already started that with the PEARL and the market supports this decision.
Ah, and no beaming in the 8800 :-)
Rumors say it gets launched in Spain this month...

[bbcat]

I would like to think that we need good, knowledgeable support people and not just great devices. Thus far, my experience with Rogers techies could be best described so-so, and their sales people abysmal. I am sure RIM makes great devices but overall I think Rogers could sharp up and hire more techinically savvy people.

my .002 cent!!!

[oppiTronic]

It is there, you can see it, feel it, love it...
http://www.blackberry8800.com/

I want it,
I want it,
I want it,
I want it,
I want it,
...

[quotberry]

I am a Trio Expat and seeing why I converted (I still love Treo) may help. I loved my 650, even with the constant resets. I loved it mainly because of the flexibility to use it in all aspects of my life. I need the email, Internet and power but I also needed the "normal life stuff too." When I crunched my car the first thing I did was grab my Treo for pictures. Same for when I got to my daughter’s music recital too late to grab the video camera or wanted to record an overhead in class.

I also had a plan. I wanted to get rid of my home phone and Internet. I heard the new speeds allowed a tethered computer to be almost as fast anyway and it would save me 100 bucks a month in redundancy.

I always saw blackberry for business people who ONLY used there phone for work. But I needed my checkbook, my camera, my ability to take a voice memo and the ability to listen to music on a morning run and call 911 without carrying two thingamagigers.

So I waited for the new Treo and gagged on windows mobile. I looked at the 700p and sighed at an amazing phone held back by lack of OS improvements. So I looked tentatively at the pearl. It was gorgeous but the keyboard was funny and I wasn't sure edge could be fast enough for use as a regular modem. I knew BB had better email capabilities and similar organizational stuff to the Treo, but the pearl finally had the ability to play music, take pictures and add memory. I was also told BY A REP the BB didn’t have third party Apps! I also wasn't sold of the lack of touch screen, or having to remove the battery to add memory. But compared to the Treo I figured it would be affordable until Palm came out with a major upgrade in the next year or two. Plus it wasn't ugly!

So I tested it in the store five time (even used a reps) and I fell in love. I discovered some third party app and I don’t have those constant resets. Adding multi media is a huge deal for many people even if they hardy ever use it. The lack of multimedia held me back from TRYING the BB and the pearl removed that obstacle right at the time a lot of Treo users were getting disappointed. My crash sold me on a camera as something other than a fun device and I consider them necessities as well as safety devices. The 8800 will do for people that don't want to try suretype what the pearl did for people who didn't want to carry something ugly that wouldn't be as useful outside the office. The 8800 is gorgeous as well, just because it is serious business doesn’t mean it has to be ugly.

The only things this new direction is missing and things that could call me back to Treo if they ever got the stability of BB.

1. Touch screen (I love the trackball but want both… just in case the ball dies)
2. Video recording (Hardly ever used but great in a pinch or for recording that robbery in the 7-11 )
3. HSPDA (why have a home connection at all?)
4. Easier access to SD card and ability to use it to hold additional applications that integrate with software already on the BB)
5. Infared (allowed me to use a keyboard and still have blue tooth open for something else, as well as control my TV from my phone)
6. More third party applications
7. Better Mac syncing capabilities

Now if missing sync covers number 7 and the added consumers take care of number 4. 1-5 would be very easy for BB to cover and with the new styling no other device would be really able to compete. I want a whole life solution not just a work solution and BB is on the right track.