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Hello everyone. I am a brand new BB user and although I consider myself pretty ... Server Admins forum

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    edjoperry09's Avatar
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    BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

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    Hello everyone. I am a brand new BB user and although I consider myself pretty tech-savvy, I have run into a bigtime problem right off the bat for configuring my new Verizon 8830.

    I have two email accounts (one gmail (POP) and one college email account (IMAP)) that I would like to 'sync' to my BB so that I can send and receive email. In addition to just sending and receiving, I am wondering if it is possible to have access to an elaborate personal folders system that I have set up via Outlook and/or if it is possible to file an email into one of those folders directly from my BB. Can I do the aforementioned things with a BIS or do I need a BES?

    Next, I am wondering what all the hubbub is over this free BES Express thing? Could someone briefly explain what it is? Furthermore, is it something that can help me out as an individual in terms of enabling me to sync outlook calendars, contacts, etc wirelessly? What do I need to do to actually install this thing? I'm not sure what an "exchange server" is and I hear that term tossed around a lot in conjunction with this BES Express. Basically, I have Microsoft Outlook 2003 and I have a detailed calendar and a detailed address book. Is there any way I that I can have these wirelessly sync in the same fashion that email does just by downloading BES Express? Or do I need an exchange server (slash what exactly is an exchange server?... something I download or some huge different piece of hardware)?

    I understand this is an extreme novice post but I am really confused by a lot of different reviews and terminology. Since I work for myself and would like to sync everything that is on my outlook to my BB I am wondering if there is anything else I need to do that other than Outlook 2003 and this BES Express thing.

    Additionally, what are the strict benefits to having BES over BIS? By going with BIS, am I basically negating some of the most attractive features of my BB?

    On another note, what is this "desktop redirection" and how does that play into this whole equation?

    Thanks for taking the time to read this. I am very excited to set up my device but am really confused. Any and all responses to this post will be greatly appreciated! Thanks again!!

    -EJ

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    jdellasala's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    First, let's get the BES Express question out of the way. It is the BES (BlackBerry Enterprise Server) software, but is restricted to 15 users, and requires an Exchange (or other supported enterprise email) Server to connect to. If you have an Exchange server, you can download and install BES for free for one client. You have to pay for additional licenses (BlackBerries that connect to the server).

    BES (BlackBerry Enterprise Server/Service) requires an Enterprise Email server to connect to.

    Desktop Redirector is a utility included in an Enterprise setup of Desktop Manager which can be used instead of a BES server to monitor your Enterprise email server and sends your email over the host computer's (Desktop's) Internet connection. It must be running on a Desktop connected to your Enterprise Email server for your BlackBerry to receive email (24x7).

    BIS is only email (so far), and polls existing POP or IMAP accounts' Inbox (*every 15 minutes), and has no ability to deal with other folders. There is no true email reconciliation with BIS. You can delete emails on your BlackBerry and optionally delete them from your Inbox, but when you utilize this function, the deleted email is NOT sent to the trash, rather it is permanently deleted and can not be recovered.

    Only BES has the ability to reconcile (mirror Reads and Delete) to folders other than the Inbox, and syncs the associated Address Book, Calendar, Tasks, and Notes wirelessly as well. Also, delivery of email from a BES server is "instantaneous" - it arrives on your BlackBerry within seconds of it arriving on the host email server.

    As you can see, setting up a BES is not for the faint of tech! However, you can get a Hosted BES account if you desperately need to sync folders and your PIMs wirelessly.

    I'm on a company provided BES server, and I love not having to manually sync my PIMs, but I don't use Folders extensively, and can certainly deal with the 15 minute delay in email, so I personally wouldn't spend the extra money on a BES setup (unless I hit the Lottery!). You can also set up BIS accounts along with your one BES account.

    *BIS 2.3 which is now pretty much standard is supposed to deliver email closer to instantly than the standard 15 minute polling when associated with Yahoo (paid?) and Google accounts. I have a Yahoo Mail Plus (paid) account, and still have delays in emails arriving on my BlackBerry. I also have several Google accounts set up on BIS. One of these delivers emails which have time stamps within the body of the message indicating the time a phone call arrived, and typically I receive these emails within 1 minute of the time stamp in the email, so I can't say with certainty that BIS can or can not deliver email more timely than the standard 15 minute polling time.
    .
    JerryD

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    edjoperry09's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    One more stupid question: What is an exchange server and how can I get one/set one up? Is it software or hardware? Does the BES Express one free thing help out someone like me who has just a pc and outlook 2003? I desperately want to use bes...
    Is there any feasible way for me to get a bes up and running for free?

    On a side note, does anyone know if there is free bes access on the web anywhere?... i heard that dotblackberrydotcom.com had free bes but the link doesn't work for me.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by edjoperry09; 07-30-2007 at 11:11 AM.

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    takeshi's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    If you're asking these questions then you really shouldn't be setting up an Exchange or BES server.

    Try checking into BES hosting for a more practical solution. Whatever you do, do not use Redirector or Mail Connector.

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    booyaacpn's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    Extremely basic response:
    Exchange Server is Microsoft's enterprise email server. Currently, your Outlook application installed on your PC is configured to receive email from at least one email server. I think you mentioned one POP and one IMAP account. A different email server exists for each of your accounts. Exchange is email server software. Frequently, email servers are run on a server dedicated to email for security and performance considerations.

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    edjoperry09's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    I'm willing to put in whatever time it takes to set up a bes in my home. I'm just wondering if I can do it for free. Like I said, I have a PC, Outlook 2003 and can get my hands on a 2003 exchange server. Is there anything else I need (other than the free bes express download)?

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    MWPatterson's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    I would recommend going with a hosted solution as Exchange Server is and can be complicated. I would not recommend setting it up unless you got access to more than Windows XP/Vista. You will also need Windows 2003 Server 32 bit Edition. You wall also need a machine to run this on as you can't run Exchange on Windows XP/Vista and it has to be on it's own box. There is also the issues with having to set up a local domain for you Exchange Server & Windows 2003 Domain Controller too.

    There is alot to just setting it up. You need to make sure that you have all the right stuff for it, ie: Hardware & Software. You also need to know how to set it all up.
    Last edited by MWPatterson; 07-30-2007 at 02:40 PM.

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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    ~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~son I too am a novice blackberry usern bot have been working in support for 10 years. Please believe me and the other posts here when we say you don`t want to put yourself through this.

    If you have your mind made up to do this, start reading about Active Directory and AD security now!

    Best of luck!

    ~BK

    P.S. - someone above said not to use the redirector... Why? I've been using it for the last day and its worked great! (After adding 20 or so senders to my safe senders list)

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    Aroc's Avatar
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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    I have two email accounts (one gmail (POP) and one college email account (IMAP)) that I would like to 'sync' to my BB so that I can send and receive email.
    One key difference is that the BlackBerry (including any BlackBerry services and devices) does not sync. The updates push then reconcile. It seems like a minor difference, but it is not so subtle when troubleshooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    I am wondering if it is possible to have access to an elaborate personal folders system that I have set up via Outlook... Can I do the aforementioned things with a BIS or do I need a BES?
    You need BES for that. Though, even with BES, realize that the mail/message application on the BlackBerry is not a replacement for a ful-blown PC running MS Outlook 2003. you don't get 1-to-1 functionality. You get most of the important email functions, but you don't get everything.

    [FONT=Helv][/FONT]
    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    Next, I am wondering what all the hubbub is over this free BES Express thing? Could someone briefly explain what it is?
    With regards to integration with corporate email systems (Microsoft Exchange Server, IBM Lotus Domino, Novell Groupwise) BES has functionality that most people expect (IT policies, lock-down control, wireless sync of all data, two-way reconciliation). Two-way reconciliation and wireless sync of all data is what separates BES from BIS in most cases. The lower cost BIS is only one-way reconciliation (from handheld to server works, but not the other way). Push works in either case (BIS or BES).

    Most sales of BES are of the baseline 20-user package what costs roughly $5k to get started. So being able to get started with 1 free user on BES-Express then add additional users at roughtly $99/ea of a big boon for small businesses. I don't see BESX (BES Express) as being targeted towards private individuals in most cases. That was BIS or BES-hosting is for. Or even the Desktop Redirector.

    A few hundred dollars vs. $5k upfront. That's a big difference. that's BESX.

    BESX has replaced the Desktop Redirector for most businesses that can't swallow $5k in BES licensing. BESX also competes in the same SMB (small-medium sized businesses) that MS Exchange + Windows Mobile + MS Activesync compete in. $5k for BES was out of line price-wise for many of the businesses Windows Mobile targets. BESX completes better here at $99/user.

    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    something that can help me out as an individual in terms of enabling me to sync outlook calendars, contacts, etc wirelessly? What do I need to do to actually install this thing?
    You need two things:
    1. Exchange hosting - c.$15/mo
    2. BES hosting - c.$15/mo

    So for roughtly $30/mo in addition to all of your other monthly airtime charges you can have over-the-air (OTA) sync of all of that stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    what an "exchange server" is and I hear that term tossed around a lot in conjunction with this BES Express.
    You care basically setting up your own business-class email system

    1. Server hardware ($$ for hardware + electricity + climate controlling) - you can run this from your house. Probably about $6/mo just in electricity alone to run a computer with standard $/kWh rates
    2. static IP address from ISP (more $ than standard cable or DSL)
    3. DNS hosting and MX record to send/receive email. (more $, plus you need port 25 open, which is rare in many cases on home broadband networks.)
    4. Microsoft Windows Server 2003 ($$)
    5. Microsoft Active Directory ($, requires above)
    6. Microsoft Exchange server ($$$, requires both above)
    7. lots of time and effort (what is your time worth?)
    8. Antispam/antivirus solution ($, this isn't as easy as it was 7-10 years ago)
    9. BES Server ($$, really needs to be a separate box from Microsoft Exchange, but you could host them on the same machine). If a separate machine is used, figure about $6/mo in electricity.

    Running your own email system can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. I run these (IBM Lotus Domino) at work, and for a time I can these at home (illegally, without proper licensing) for my personal use. It's not that impossible or hard, but there is a fairly large learning curve. It can be beneficial. But to think that you can run your own email system to save money is likely to be false economy. it's a huge PITA for something that should be available 24/7/365.

    Email is best run by a slave (read: someone else). People aren't trying to talk you out of running your own BES. (I guess you could run your own BESX, and tie into a (cc.$15/mo) hosted MS Exchange. But i can't see you hosting your own Exchange server for less that the $15/mo it would cost for the hosting service for a single user. Even with BES, you barely break even over the electricity, that's assuming you have free or nearly free hardware to use.

    When I hosted my own site, it was on Domino R5 (free since I stole the licenses). I used Server 2000 (stole again), paid over $100/mo for SDSL with a couple static IP addresses, and DNS hosting for the MX record. Paid whatever, (I forget) to reserve a domain name. I had some bux into hardware, a pair of UPSs, and a window Air conditioner. It was fun, and I learned alot, but I doubt it was worth it. Scratch that, I know it wasn't worth it. It can be done, but I don't recommend it.

    Now I use hotmail for my personal email. I get this every 15 minutes via BIS. This is fine. Whatever I delete on the handheld, gets deleted in hotmail. Whatever gets deleted in hotmail, sadly, does not reconcile to the handheld. but this is OK. I'm not paying extra per month for that right.

    I use Gmail and Yahoo for my side-business (consulting work). I get these push, or near-instantaneous push from BIS. I don't get the two-way reconciliation of BES, but that's OK. Yahoo and Gmail have huge quotas, so this is OK. Clients like the fast response. Since I don't have a secretary, i don't need wireless reconciliation of Calendar and contacts (even though it would be nice). I can live without wireless PIM. I use the same user name at both. My clients know that if they don't receive a timely response on one of the accounts, that they should try the other. (I was at a site once where they blocked Web access to hotmail and yahoo mail, prior to having a blackberry. So i was out of contact for a few hours. Using two accounts means that even if I can't access a provider, or if the provider has network issues, I can still be reached at a backup account).

    I use BES at work. We pay $$$ and get get all of the functionality. And we actually justify it, so it is worth it. We have about 17 users to spread out the costs.

    The free email providers are better today than they were 7-10 years ago. So many of the real reasons to run you own email server don't quite exist anymore. back then, I wanted a 4GB mail quota, adn the assurance that the provider wouldn't go out of business. You can pretty much get both of those now, AND with a nice Web Interface, and antispam and antivirus for little or no money. Plus you get some other slave to run it for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    By going with BIS, am I basically negating some of the most attractive features of my BB?
    The most attractive feature of the BB is push email. You get that on BIS.

    The most attractive feature of BES is reconciliation with corporate messaging systems. You could probably get this with the Desktop Redirector.

    Quote Originally Posted by edjoperry09
    On another note, what is this "desktop redirection" and how does that play into this whole equation?
    It's sort of like poorman's BES for one user. You set up a sacrifical desktop PC (or your mail PC) which you lean on 24/7 at work or at home. You leave your MS Outlook running 24/7 on it. the Desktop Redirector also runs on this PC and reconciles your email. It may or may not reconcile your PIM data (address book, calendar, to do list, etc). I haven't looked at the product since 2002, so I can't comment.
    Last edited by Aroc; 08-02-2007 at 03:41 PM.
    Domino 6.5.6FP1 | BES 4.1.4

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    Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    Dear Aroc,

    Thank you for the excellent explanation. I must admit I too had all these questions in mind but never asked them.

    Thanks.

    Deepak

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    Thumbs up Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    I did this at home several months ago, set up a Windows 2000 Server with MS Exchange and BESX to handle email for my domain. Btw, I had to purchase the domain, but I hosted it a dyndns.com, which lets you run a service that updates their DNS servers with your current IP address. However, some mail servers ( Yahoo ) refuse connections from SMTP server ( one function of Exchange ) from dynamic IP's, so I purchased a Mailhop service from Dyndns that did the mail sending for me, like a proxy.

    So, at this point I had Exchange at home, running 24/7, never had a system outage, and it was wireless synching my BB. However, I decided to try having one less computer last week, and shut down that server and switched to BIS provided by my carrier. I must admit, I really miss the Exchange server, and will probably set it back up again soon. Having duplicate emails on my BBerry( sent items are in my inbox! ), duplicate emails in my desktop ( if you delete from BBerry, it is still on your PC ), and not being able to file emails are reasons to go through all of the trouble to get it set back up again. Oh, and you can also set up OWA and access your email through a Web based interface using a self-generated security certificate.

    If you can get the software for free( no, I won't tell you how ), and have a box that can handle it, I would do it. It does take hours to get it all set up, but then it just works as long as you supply the power and Internet connection. Just be ready to do your own tech support if something breaks. I did not have any problems, but YMMV!

    I think my new Exchange server will be a virtual machine running on an existing computer at home. 2 for the price of one!

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    Thumbs up Re: BES vs BIS vs BES Express vs Desktop Redirection

    Quote Originally Posted by jagooch
    I think my new Exchange server will be a virtual machine running on an existing computer at home. 2 for the price of one!
    Btw, I set up Windows 2003 SP2 with Exchange SP2, and I added in QSS Exchange Connector to get gmail email automatically delivered to my mailbox. BESX handles synchronization, and there you go. Now even if my home setup fails, I can still hit gmail over the Web and get my messages.

    Unsubcribing this thread now. If you have questions, message me directly.

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