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I've read many posts stating that T-Mobile's UMA will "never" work on an at&t branded ... Blackberry 8800 & 8820 forum

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    jerrycrabb's Avatar
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    Question an Unlocked at&t BB will never be UMA capable....WHY?

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    I've read many posts stating that T-Mobile's UMA will "never" work on an at&t branded blackberry.

    Does anybody know why? Its always been my understanding that the devices were essentially the same. Does T-Mobile simply reject the 102 vendor stamp that I assume is written into the firmware?


    I know this is an older topic but I just replaced my old 8700g with a brand new at&t branded 8820 for FREE! I can accept that UMA will NOT work. What I have difficulty with, is not knowing why.


    Thanks for any insight,

    -Jerry
    Build a man a fire and he shall be warm for the night. Catch a man on fire and he shall be warm for the rest of his life!

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    HotCelica's Avatar
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    Well WIFI and UMA are 2 different things, your BB may have WIFI but as of right now T-Mobile is the only carrier with UMA in their phones for the hotspot at home service

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    ...All of which means that you should be able to connect at any "open" or wireless area if you have the key and browse the internet with your phone.
    For every complex problem there is a solution, that is simple, neat, .....and wrong! (H. L. Mencken) jblackfish(at)pinstack(dot)com

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    UMA is for VOIP so you can browse the web all you want but you won't be able to use the router as a tower like you would be able to with a T-Mobile branded phone that has UMA

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrycrabb View Post
    Does anybody know why? Its always been my understanding that the devices were essentially the same. Does T-Mobile simply reject the 102 vendor stamp that I assume is written into the firmware?
    While I'm not positive, there are strong indications that Vendor ID is checked in the UMA application module installed on the device.

    There was some discussion on this board earlier when we tried a variety of things to get UMA on a Hong Kong imported Pearl on the T-Mobile USA network. We determined that it isn't affected by service books, isn't affected by OS version, and isn't affected by having T-Mobile's X.509 certificates installed.

    So, that left two possibilities: the UMA module checks for a Vendor ID for a provider that supports UMA (such as T-Mobile or Rogers), or there is some deeper limitation in the baseband firmware that controls that. I'm inclined to think it is the former, rather than the latter, since as far as I know, the baseband firmware on BlackBerry devices is really thin.

    If it is controlled by a software check in the UMA module, it would be possible to decompile the module, alter the check to work for other vendor IDs, recompile it, and hopefully get it resigned. It's something on my to-do list after I get the last kinks out of my reverse engineered decompiler.

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    It's no secret I can get a bit long winded in my posts, so in the interest of remaining in good standing (thanks hayden!) and not taking up far too much space here on this terrific forum, I'm including a link which will explain UMA Technology to those who care to read about it. Fascinating really... If your an uber geek like me...

    UMA Technology


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    jerrycrabb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMobileCSR View Post
    Well WIFI and UMA are 2 different things, your BB may have WIFI but as of right now T-Mobile is the only carrier with UMA in their phones for the hotspot at home service
    The way I understand it, UMA is a CAPABILITY of WIFI so long as a carrier supports the hand-off. As posted in the original question I do have T-Mobile service. In asking the question I was hoping someone could tell me what was phycially different in the branded devices that could prohibit this hand-off.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblackfish View Post
    ...All of which means that you should be able to connect at any "open" or wireless area if you have the key and browse the internet with your phone.
    yup

    Quote Originally Posted by TMobileCSR View Post
    UMA is for VOIP so you can browse the web all you want but you won't be able to use the router as a tower like you would be able to with a T-Mobile branded phone that has UMA
    uh-huh. can you tell why a TMO sim card can't use UMA in an at&t branded 8820?
    Its the same technology - theres an implemented barrier somewhere, I'm looking for insight as to where.


    Quote Originally Posted by archer6 View Post
    It's no secret I can get a bit long winded in my posts, so in the interest of remaining in good standing (thanks hayden!) and not taking up far too much space here on this terrific forum, I'm including a link which will explain UMA Technology to those who care to read about it. Fascinating really... If your an uber geek like me...

    UMA Technology
    Thank you for the link. The information provided is very nice but it doesnt really answer the question either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thyth View Post
    While I'm not positive, there are strong indications that Vendor ID is checked in the UMA application module installed on the device.

    There was some discussion on this board earlier when we tried a variety of things to get UMA on a Hong Kong imported Pearl on the T-Mobile USA network. We determined that it isn't affected by service books, isn't affected by OS version, and isn't affected by having T-Mobile's X.509 certificates installed.

    So, that left two possibilities: the UMA module checks for a Vendor ID for a provider that supports UMA (such as T-Mobile or Rogers), or there is some deeper limitation in the baseband firmware that controls that. I'm inclined to think it is the former, rather than the latter, since as far as I know, the baseband firmware on BlackBerry devices is really thin.

    If it is controlled by a software check in the UMA module, it would be possible to decompile the module, alter the check to work for other vendor IDs, recompile it, and hopefully get it resigned. It's something on my to-do list after I get the last kinks out of my reverse engineered decompiler.
    *** This is exactly the type of stuff I was looking for ***

    Thank you Thyth for your insight, if you make any headway here - I'd like to be the first to know!


    If anyone else has their own take on it, I'd like to hear from you.

    -Jerry
    Last edited by jerrycrabb; 10-20-2008 at 08:28 PM.
    Build a man a fire and he shall be warm for the night. Catch a man on fire and he shall be warm for the rest of his life!

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    If I make any headway, I'll see about making a UMA enabler for WiFi enabled BlackBerry devices of other providers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyth View Post
    If I make any headway, I'll see about making a UMA enabler for WiFi enabled BlackBerry devices of other providers.
    Just wondering if you ever got around to creating a UMA enabler for devices like an ATT 8900? It appears that there would be a lot of interest in this capability.....thanks for any updates.
    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
    Enjoying life in Lehi, UT with my BB 9780 on ATT

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    This was solved over a year ago. Access the engineering screen -- you're on your own for this, since RIM has sent me legal nastygrams "requesting" (in the legal strong arm sort of way) that I don't discuss their "copyrighted materials". Once in the engineering screens you can provision UMA settings for your provider.

    You should be able to find T-Mobile USA settings pretty easily. Rogers Canada settings, and Orange settings for several European counteries are floating around. You should be able to find them with a bit of searching.
    Need an eScreen code? Try my generator: http://absolous.wavegap.com/projects/escreen/

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    Thanks Thyth.....I appreciate the update.....I'll look around and try to put it together....appreciate your efforts and insight on this and other issues......
    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
    Enjoying life in Lehi, UT with my BB 9780 on ATT

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    Best if you figure this out plz let me know!!
    THBASSMAN

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    Will do...would like to get it worked out before my Italy trip 2 wks. from yesterday...

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    Just a FYI to you ^^^ both, be careful some of us have ended with non functional phones after playing with the e screens

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    Quote Originally Posted by ealvnv View Post
    Just a FYI to you ^^^ both, be careful some of us have ended with non functional phones after playing with the e screens

    I know, EA-thus disappeared the reddragon!
    THBASSMAN

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