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Ok, here we go folks: the problem is I do not seem to be able ... Blackberry 8800 & 8820 forum

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    pallavik's Avatar
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    Trouble with third party apps. (yes, all of them...)

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    Ok, here we go folks: the problem is I do not seem to be able to run third party apps on my 8820 due to the fact that said apps. appear to be unable to access the internet connection that is indeed available on the device. At present I have tried the following three applications: Opera Mini, Yahoo mail & Google maps, no go for all of them always with the same error message, i.e. no internet connection.

    For quite some time I had been wrestling with an IT policy – inherited from the 8820’s previous owner - which kept the firewall enabled and stopped me from modifying its settings so after I finally managed to rid the phone of it using the “restore to factory” option in JL_Cmder I really thought I had cracked it. One thing that’s sure is that now the firewall is showing as disabled in settings and gone is the little red padlock alongside it meaning that I can fiddle with it to my heart’s content; so too are all the error messages stating that “operette is trying to open a connection inside the firewall and outside the firewall blah, blah, blah”. I now get a couple of more normal messages when launching Opera Mini which other people also report seeing on their devices but contrary to them after a couple of minutes’ wait I get the same “no internet connection” error message I ended up with even before when the firewall was in the way. Similar story with both Yahoo Mail and Google Maps – no messages popping up there but still claiming no internet connection available in the end – with the added aggro that Google Maps seems to mess up my data connection whenever I launch it and I need to perform a battery pull to get the Vodafone Live! browser to work again. One thing to be kept in mind is that from what I hear OM 4.1 works with wi-fi but even when that’s available the story remains the same. By contrast the embedded BB wi-fi browser works wonderfully with wi-fi and the Vodafone Live! browser too functions quite happily on lower case gprs/edge.

    I have no BB data plan on my contract, hence no BES or BIS and for the time being I intend to keep it that way so it’s all the more important that third party apps. should be made to work. I am not exactly dying to get this to happen but really there’s so much more that I feel I’m missing out on at present. Please note that I also recently managed to get the 8820 to work as a tethered modem with my laptop and that’s one more evidence of the fact that it does handle data on its current set-up.

    One thing I almost forgot to mention, all the permissions on each one of the apps. is set to "allow"...

    Any ideas anyone please... Thanks,

    Piero

  2. #2
    Don LuiG's Avatar
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    Did yiu say you don't have a data plan if that's the case than 3rd party apps or internet browsing won't work. I heard opera mini will work on a limited data plan.

    ~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~

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    no internet browsing without data plan and 3rd party apps like opera and gmail or yahoo mail will not install or work without a data plan.

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    pallavik's Avatar
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    Hi there and thanks for the replies.

    I sure don't have a BB data plan but I do have a generic data plan which always worked on any previous handset I ran earlier. In fact to my surprise it seems to work even with the browser that came with the 8820 - in its Vodafone Live! incarnation; some posts state the BB browser won't work without BB data plan/lower case gprs-edge - and all third party apps. are being proclaimed as being unaffected by the absence of BB data plans, which is the reason why I have so much interest in them in the first place. Scores of people with no BB data plan declare having turned to Opera Mini due to the BB browser not giving them any joy and have been living happily ever after...

    I stand to be corrected but the amount of posts from all happy OM users BB data plan-free seems to tell me that I too should be fine... Any other suggestion?

    Cheers,

    Piero

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    Have you set your APN?

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    Yes, I have and it's working alright. I copied the settings from my previous handset...

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    Thyth's Avatar
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    There are 6 connectivity methods that applications can use to achieve data transfer.

    There is MDS, and BIS -- which you obviously don't have as part of your data plan.

    There is "Direct TCP", which uses a carrier IP gateway (APN) to communicate, but should otherwise be independent of the data plan as long as the device is provisioned correctly.

    There is WAP and WAP2. WAP2 provides similar capabilities to the direct TCP access, but instead of going through an IP gateway, the device connects through the carrier WAP gateway. Both of these are defined through the device service books on the device ('WAP 2.0 WPTCP' for WAP 2 and 'WAP Transport' for WAP 1).

    The last connection mechanism is WiFi. These are also defined as service books, but these are typically included on the device even without network provisioning. These are Wi-Fi TCP/IP Browser (a BrowserConfig type book), and Wi-Fi TCP/IP Transport (a WPTCP type book).

    If your APN is properly configured (which I encourage you to verify), the only other possibility is a service book issue. Without a BES/BIS plan though, I doubt you could correct that.

  8. #8
    pallavik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyth View Post
    There are 6 connectivity methods that applications can use to achieve data transfer.

    There is MDS, and BIS -- which you obviously don't have as part of your data plan.

    There is "Direct TCP", which uses a carrier IP gateway (APN) to communicate, but should otherwise be independent of the data plan as long as the device is provisioned correctly.

    There is WAP and WAP2. WAP2 provides similar capabilities to the direct TCP access, but instead of going through an IP gateway, the device connects through the carrier WAP gateway. Both of these are defined through the device service books on the device ('WAP 2.0 WPTCP' for WAP 2 and 'WAP Transport' for WAP 1).

    The last connection mechanism is WiFi. These are also defined as service books, but these are typically included on the device even without network provisioning. These are Wi-Fi TCP/IP Browser (a BrowserConfig type book), and Wi-Fi TCP/IP Transport (a WPTCP type book).

    If your APN is properly configured (which I encourage you to verify), the only other possibility is a service book issue. Without a BES/BIS plan though, I doubt you could correct that.
    Hi Thyth and thanks for the info, it's all quite useful stuff to know. I get the feeling that the problem may lie with the service books as you suggest in your mail so I think I will have a stab at getting Vodafone to send out some new ones for whatever I am entitled to have whilst still off the BB data plan. After I did the "restore to factory" I have lost loads of the service books I had beforehand and right now I am left with the following:
    1. Vodafone Live! [BrowserConfig]
    2. Services - vfuk WAPtrans [WAP]
    3. Wap Push Config [WAPPushConfig]
    4. WAP MMS Transport [WAP]
    5. Wi-Fi TCP/IP Browser [BrowserConfig]
    6. Wi-Fi TCP/IP Transport [WPTCP]
    As for my APN it was "wap.vodafone.co.uk", user name "wap", password "user" on my old Nokia N73 and I can't see it having changed. In addition to that after the "restore to factory" I hadn't realised the restore from previous back-up wouldn't reinstate the APN and found that the Vodafone Live! browser had stopped working; as soon as I manually re-entered the APN it came back to life...

    Cheerio,

    Piero

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    By the way, if I were to get a negative reply from Vodafone would there be a possibility that some other 8820 BB owner could send me his service books? I believe I read something about that being possible... I feel quite confident that there must be some workaround as I read of a lot of people with no BB plans using OM successfully...

    Thanks,

    Piero

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    I think service books can only be received from network, but I'm not positive about that.

    If you do manage to find a way to transfer a service book, it would need to be from someone on the same provider too.

  11. #11
    Don LuiG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyth View Post
    I think service books can only be received from network, but I'm not positive about that.

    If you do manage to find a way to transfer a service book, it would need to be from someone on the same provider too.
    most carriers as far as i know can only send them over the air..

  12. #12
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    Ok, thanks again. I'll keep looking into it...

    Piero

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