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Originally Posted by jb76006 This is ridiculous! BB must fix this. I think a lot ... Blackberry 8800 & 8820 forum

  1. #16
    jscottbarnes's Avatar
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry


    Quote Originally Posted by jb76006
    This is ridiculous! BB must fix this. I think a lot of us who switched from regular cell phones to the Pearl because of its size are VERY disappointed. I love this phone but something this basic needs to be addressed at BB HQ. I am in Phoenix at the moment and I just learned this the hard way by being 2 hours early to my meeting.
    Better than 2 hrs late...
    Sorry to be so coy... i agree, it's a headache, but can't u see the issues caused with hundreds of calendar items etc.

    ~ jscott
    iPhone 3G & BOLD

  2. #17
    Klotar's Avatar
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry

    The best thing would be to have a choice. But personally I would not want my timezone to change automatically.

    And some people live in cities or commute daily to work where they are at a time zone border. If time was taken from cell towers, that would be havoc for those people... the time would flip back and forth depending on what tower was being communicated with and so on.

    But if there's a choice to how to have the time set, great. If not, I feel that NOT having the time zone set automatically according to the cell towers was the best choice. So in my opinion (and of course, it's just that), it's not broken.
    Supervising Manager of the Department of Redundancy Department.

  3. #18
    soctechnologist's Avatar
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry

    Quote Originally Posted by swing42
    It would be awesome if RIM could make the phone adjust to local (tower) time and give you the option to leave appointments at their original time (relative to GMT) or to let them adjust to the new local time. This doesn't seem too difficult. Any RIM OS developers out there listening?.....

    Just facing this as a new BB owner. Did not have this issue with my Treo I don't think. Maybe it was agendus, but my treo would do the above... my phone time changed, and calendar items adjusted to maintain relative to GMT. This is really odd for a business smart phone...

  4. #19
    larryw's Avatar
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry

    Yes, the Treo did update according to locale (the PalmOS based 650, that is, can't speak for WinCE based devices). Stunned this "worldphone" isn't smart enough to know where it is.

  5. #20
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry

    ...all this time later...

    Short Explanation:

    The carriers advertise the time in UTC ("Greenwich (in England) Mean Time"), then the local time zone (which includes how many hours more or less than UTC, and whether the locale uses DST), and finally whether the local market is under standard time or daylight savings time.

    The phones store the time in UTC, store the local time zone, and store the ST/DST flag, then calculate how far back or forward from UTC the locale currently sits, and displays that time.

    Blackberry "phones" as well as other mini computers with built-in phones may maintain their own local clock or update the local clock based on the network (both in UTC), and they can either use the time zone you set or, if the OS is so designed, acquire the time zone and st/dst flags from the network.

    RIM's current choice is to, by default, use the time from your computer when and if you hook your Blackberry to your computer or your company's network. You can elect to use the cellular network to acquire the time, but you cannot likewise elect to use the local cellular network's time zone and st/dst flag. If that a bug?'s a "wad" (works as designed). Is it wise?'s "one more choice among dozens", and it likely to confuse. It probably means the OS needs a wizard applet to help folks decide, and/or needs to empower corp admins to choose.

    I personally like the fact that my T-Mobile Dash (Windows Mobile 6) uses the cellular network and automagically sets my time zone, too, when I travel, and I like that my calendar entries in Pocket Outlook adjust accordingly, so I don't miss my appointments even when on the road. If you don't like that auto-adjust then perhaps you need to be empowered to say no to even that. Too many knobs to twiddle, though, tends to push users away from the handset. Not an easy choice.

    Long Explanation:

    Pretty much all current cellular networks provide the current world time, meaning they advertise the clock time in Universal Coordinated Time (UTC in the common vernacular from the French form, GMT for Greenwich Mean Time, or Zulu to time zone offset 0).

    The same networks broadcast or distribute the time in UTC, and they advertise what they consider to be the "local time zone", which is set by the cellular carrier market by market. If you are in a metropolitan area near a time zone transition then they either respect the time zone tower by tower or they choose one time zone or the other for the entire "market". The most logical choice is to designate the "predominant local time zone"...again, really a choice of the carrier for that market.

    The time zone descriptors indicate whether the locale uses DST or just standard time. One form of time zone, say, for pacific time, would be "PST8PDT", meaning the local's tag is "PST", is offset behind UTC by 8 hours, and that the locale uses DST with the tag "PDT". If the locale did not use DST but was Pacific time it might look like "PST8"

    Finally, the carrier time indicators describe whether the local time is standard or daylight savings time.

    Typically, phones and typical desktop operating systems, and servers like Windows 2000 and up, keep the clock in UTC no matter where they are. They present the "local" time because they know the local time zone, usually because you answered some setup question about where to keep the clock on the computer. Higher-end operating systems are configurable to store the time the way the admin wants (actual local time or UTC). Most of the desktop and server computer OS' periodically set the clocks from network sources (too much to cover here...look up "NTP" for Network Time Protocol).

    "Smartphones" are closer to desktop computers than traditional cellular handsets, though even the most common handset nowadays are creeping closer to the same state (witness Java runtimes that allow execution of some hefty programs on a little phone). To that end each smartphone developer gets to decide to get the time from your computer, from network connections via WiFi and so forth, and/or from the cellular network (where they also get to choose whether to use the cellular network's time zone and dst flag).

    Go beyond the time question to how timed events from calendaring to tasks to "follow-up" on email messages are handled. For folks who sync with Exchange or Lotus servers keep in mind that the servers write the timed events in UTC and then display the "appointment time" in local time calculated from the UTC clock and the time zone offset. This means when you take your smartphone on the road and it picks up (if so enabled) a new time zone your appointment times move, too.

    So, if you know your phone will change, then, when you enter appointments (that will happen in another time zone) into your mail program (like Outlook) adjust the appointment's time to your current local time. For example, if you are in Los Angeles and are making an appointment for a meeting in Boston next week, and the Bostonian at the other end say "yes, let's meet at 4pm" you would enter 1pm since that is was time it will be in LA, your current locale, when the appointment happens. Once you get to Boston and the new time zone is applied, vo'ila!, it now appears on the correct "local Eastern time" of 4pm rather than the 1pm you entered last week.

    As it is, in MS Outlook, the times will adjust for appointments if you choose a new time zone in the computer. If you routinely encounter this issue then you are probably a traveler of some form (business, terminally wealthy, etc.), so you probably already think in terms of "their time" and "my time"

    I would propose RIM enable the cellular time function, then create a wizard applet that senses the change and pops up to ask the user "do you wish to use the local network's time zone?", followed by "would you like to adjust the time shown for appointments?", both with checkboxes to remember the answer. Then almost everyone would be happy!

  6. #21
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry

    What you have to do, is turn the phone off, then turn it back on. I used to cross time zones frequently. I had a Palm Treo, which didn't always auto update when I changed zones. Turning off, then on, forced the phone to find the local tower and update the time.

  7. #22
    Sniperet's Avatar
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    Re: Time: Network vs. Blackberry

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenLoneWolf View Post
    What you have to do, is turn the phone off, then turn it back on. I used to cross time zones frequently. I had a Palm Treo, which didn't always auto update when I changed zones. Turning off, then on, forced the phone to find the local tower and update the time.
    Turning the phone off and on will have no effect on a Blackberry the phone does not set its clock based on local time settings. For that matter I was surprised to read above that the WM6 platform will automatically adjust its clock to local settings WM5 didn't have that ability on my Q.

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