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First off I have some questions: Is it possible to use Google Maps without BES? ... Blackberry 8800 & 8820 forum

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    the_woozle's Avatar
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    Is this a service book issue?

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    First off I have some questions:
    • Is it possible to use Google Maps without BES?
    • Is it possible to use the Gmail app without BES?
    • Is it possible to use Blackberry Maps without BES?
    I have been reading a lot of different threads on here to try and resolve my issues. I know a lot of parts of what I will be posting here have been talked about before, but none of the answers have directly helped me. My problem looks to be a missing service book to me, but I want to make sure of this before I try to deal with Orange France (completely useless with Blackberries) about fixing this.

    I live in France, have a subscription with Orange France, and am using an 8800. I have a data plan, and BIS access. When I first subscribed back in April I hadn’t realized there was a difference between BIS and BES (didn’t know that two existed actually) and happily used my access to activate on my company’s BES. I live and work in France and my company is in the UK. Orange France won’t sell you BES access unless you are a company, which I am not, so BES access is out. The problem is that after about a month my BES access stopped working, that’s fine (while annoying) since I didn’t have the proper access for it, but what’s causing me problems is that a lot of other things stopped working as well.

    Mapping apps don’t work unless I am connected to my laptop and connected to work via vpn so it can use the BES server bypass. This is the same for the Gmail app. I still have internet connectivity via my BIS using the WAP browser, and I can get my emails using the BIS access for email where it polls the accounts every 10 or 15 minutes. This is what makes me think that my BIS is at least “sort of” working.

    The “Blackberry Browser” doesn’t work unless using the aforementioned vpn bypass method and I read in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eatmypiano
    Just came across this post. There is only one Browser application on the BlackBerry. How it behaves depends on which Service Books you have been sent by RIM or your BES. Your browsers can be MDS (BES), PMDS (BIS-B) and WAP (1.2, 1.2 secure, 2.0) but when you click an icon for any of these in the Ribbon. the BlackBerry will refer to a ServiceBook to see how to handle the data. For example. MDS goes to your BES and uses your company internet connection, PMDS goes through RIM's internet connection and WAP is supplied by the carrier.
    This PMDS (BIS-B) seems like it might be what I am missing. What service books SHOULD I have? I don’t have anything that mentions BIS, and I do still have a few things from the BES authentication. Should I wipe the handheld and start again? I can list all of the service books I currently have if that is of any use.

    Finally, on the Services Status in Manage Connections I assume that BlackBerry Internet Service Connection: not connected would normally say connected if it was set up properly?

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    I had the service book problem you are describing. Some apps would work and some would not. Then i switched to an 8310 and i got all the books right away so it must be a problem with the device not the service.

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    Thanks for the feedback but getting a different device isn't really an option right now. Surely the 8800s weren't intended to be as limited as I am seeing when being used without BES access.

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akakios
    You, from what I know, should be able to do what it is you're wanting on BIS no problem like I am.
    This sounds promising. What service book specifically am I needing to try and get from my carrier then? Orange France is hopelessly useless when it comes to support for Blackberries, especially since the majority of the support people have no clue about BlackBerries and how they are different from any other phone. If someone can help me know exactly what I am looking for I might be able to find a tech support person who can help. I know I'll get nowhere without knowing what I am looking for though.

    One other question as well. Can my service books associated to the BES authentication via usb attached vpn remain on the device? Or will that just cause problems?

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_woozle
    • Is it possible to use Google Maps without BES?
    • Is it possible to use the Gmail app without BES?
    • Is it possible to use Blackberry Maps without BES?
    Absolutely! Typically the issue you're running into is due to the need to specify your carrier's TCP settings (not needed with BES). If you believe you're missing service books you can always delete them all and push them via your carrier's BIS site.

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    Well from all of my searches on the internet and around this forum the tcp settings for Orange France should be

    APN: orange.fr
    Username: orange
    Password: orange

    some places say the user name and password are not necessary. For m e it doesn't make a difference either way. I am getting data service, can send and receive, and browse to certain sites (wap gateway and browser are working just fine) but none of the other apps are doing what they should. Does that have anything to do with them having been used via BES? Do they stick to their original settings and not deviate from their default? I would have thought that when BES access methods fail it would move on to the BIS services for which the TCP settings appear to be configured correctly for now.

    Is the fact that in the Services Status page the "Blackberry Internet Services connection: not connected" always says not connected significant?

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    When you were connected to the BES your Company may have installed an IT Policy that prohibits the use of third party software, and BB maps.

    Check with your BB Admins to see if you are still shown to be correctly activated on the BES. And asked what 3rd party S/W limitations are included in the IT Policy.

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    ~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~
    Question, it doesn't help to go into your email setup and just resend your service books and then re-register your berry. I am pretty new to this also but have had Some similar problems and doing that has always done the trick.

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcbjr
    When you were connected to the BES your Company may have installed an IT Policy that prohibits the use of third party software, and BB maps.

    Check with your BB Admins to see if you are still shown to be correctly activated on the BES. And asked what 3rd party S/W limitations are included in the IT Policy.

    Rcbjr.
    Nope I don't think this is it. When I am connected to my laptop and using the "bypass" that routes traffic through the BES server everything works. The only time I actually had maps working properly without being connected to the laptop was just after my subscription started and I was able to activate to the BES server at work. A while later this stopped working with apparently RIM must have re-indexed or something and discovered I was getting BES access through a BIS account.

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    Re: Is this a service book issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench
    ~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~
    Question, it doesn't help to go into your email setup and just resend your service books and then re-register your berry. I am pretty new to this also but have had Some similar problems and doing that has always done the trick.
    Nah, this hasn't been working either. Today I have tried a number of things. I wiped the handheld to start with and installed the desktop software on another computer. I started again and had all the service books resent. I have tried changing the apn to orange.fr but all my HRT entries are still showing blackberry.net as the apn regardless of what I put in the TCP options. Am I doing something wrong in there?

    When I resend my service books they all come back to me using the HRT entries for blackberry.net. The only service books that aren't coming back with this are for
    WAP Transport [WAP]
    Orange France MMS Transport [WAP]
    WAP Push Config [WAPPushConfig]
    Last edited by the_woozle; 09-20-2007 at 01:58 PM.

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