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Good catch. That should explain the 3mb difference after wiping the device. I am set ... Blackberry 8800 & 8820 forum

  1. #31
    dolphinrich's Avatar
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

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    Good catch. That should explain the 3mb difference after wiping the device. I am set (by default) to 15mb.

    Wonder how that will affect performance.

  2. #32
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLeft
    I called RIM and they wouldn't talk to me unless I agreed to pay for support - what a company. Brand new device and they want me to pay them to report a problem. Only way they would talk to me is for Verizon to be on the line. Didn't matter that Verizon gave me their number and told me to call them directly.
    All (not just you) support calls to RIM need to be escalated via your carrier unless you pay RIM or have a support agreement (i.e. you're running a BES server with a maintenance agreement). You need to get VZW to escalate and not just give you RIM's number. Most carriers don't know what they're doing when it comes to BB support so you really have to guide them.
    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinrich
    Wonder how that will affect performance.
    Pretty minimally. Most people fixate on the free space on a BB with a PC mindset. 15MB is a LOT of space on a BB. It does sound like there is some sort of memory leak with the 8830 or the 8830 and a 3rd party app though...
    Last edited by takeshi; 05-31-2007 at 03:37 AM.

  3. #33
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Still waiting on a response. Was supposed to have received one by 10AM EST today. Guess they are busy scratching their heads trying to figure it out OR conferring with their legal department.

  4. #34
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Any news yet? Still think there is a memory leak in the device or a program as memory continually erodes over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by rweckhoff
    Still waiting on a response. Was supposed to have received one by 10AM EST today. Guess they are busy scratching their heads trying to figure it out OR conferring with their legal department.

  5. #35
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLeft
    Any news yet? Still think there is a memory leak in the device or a program as memory continually erodes over time.
    Nope - sent them a "reminder" yesterday that they still owed me an answer. Leaving tomorrow for vacation and will be without access to phone or data for a week. Will catch back up on this on the 10th.

  6. #36
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    So here is the response I received. 1 - They failed to answer the fundamental question of how much free file memory I should have (32MB, 48MB, or 64MB) and 2 - They obviously have not tried deleting stock photos ....

    =====

    Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to further assist you with your Blackberry 8830 question about memory usage on the device.

    First, we apologize for any delay in responding to your email.

    On our demo Blackberry 8830, we also see, in the File Total field, the value of 47841280 bytes. On Blackberry devices, to check memory for storage space, you need to, from the main screen, go to Options, and then to Status. On the Status screen there two fields that needs to be checked when viewing memory usage which are the File Free and File Total fields. The value in the File Total field displays the remaining storage space after loading items, such as the wireless transceiver, operating system, and basic applications. The value in the File Free field indicates the amount free data storage. When managing memory on your device, you will pay more attention to the File Free value because items, such as attachments, when saved to the device will decrease the value in the File Free field. An example of when the value in the File Total would change is when you perform an operating system upgrade as some point, and the newer operating system is larger than the current operating system, then the value in the File Total field would change accordingly.

    Please note that there are items pre-installed on your device, such as sample pictures and videos that affect the value in the File Free field. These items can be deleted if more storage space is needed. You should also be aware that at times, the value in the File Free field will display an incorrect value. If this occurs, you would need to reset the device by removing and reading the battery to correct this issue.

    If you have further questions or concerns, please write to us again through www.VerizonWireless.com. We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless.

    =====
    Last edited by rweckhoff; 06-03-2007 at 07:35 AM.

  7. #37
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Yes, it is as clear as mud. With 64 MB of Flash and 32 MB of RAM, it is tough to figure out these numbers. The operating system obviously is in Flash, so it will never get deleted on power loss. I did some math and calculated how many bytes would be left in Flash and came up with the following numbers:

    64 MB x 1024 = 65,536,000 Total Bytes available (converting K bytes to bytes)
    Subtract File Total of 47,841,280
    Gives - 17,694,720 Availabe from Flash

    After a hard reset, with nothing installed, I show a file free of 20,085,452

    So it is impossible that all of this could be in Flash - the question is is any of it in Flash? Without any basis in fact, just doing the math, it would appear that all of this information could be in the 32 MB of RAM. The reasoning is as follows:

    32 MB RAM = 32,768,000 Total Bytes available (converting K bytes to bytes)
    Subtract 12 MB for Multimedia File allocation of 12,288,000
    Gives - 20,480,000 Available from Flash

    This number would support a file free of 20,085,452. Flash memory is supposed to survive a complete power down, while RAM will lose it contents when the battery is removed. Since I pulled my battery and the programs didn't drop off the blackberry, it would appear that the programs are in Flash. But I gained back File Free space, so that would imply that the temp data areas the programs are using are in RAM. But I could be way off. I must confess I have no understanding on how the blackberry allocates its memory, and have tried repeatedly to get an answer from someone at Verizon. No luck. Everyone I have spoken to has given me a different answer. RIM will only speak with me if I agree to pay them.

    If you an understanding of how memory is allocated in these devices, please jump in. Seems like there is no answer coming from Verizon, and RIM won't jump in and shed any light on it. The attitude seems to be - don't worry about it. Since there are no utilities that I can find to view how memory is allocated, it seems like that is what most folks have been doing in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by rweckhoff
    So here is the response I received. 1 - They failed to answer the fundamental question of how much free file memory I should have (32MB, 48MB, or 64MB) and 2 - They obviously have not tried deleting stock photos ....

    =====

    Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to further assist you with your Blackberry 8830 question about memory usage on the device.

    First, we apologize for any delay in responding to your email.

    On our demo Blackberry 8830, we also see, in the File Total field, the value of 47841280 bytes. On Blackberry devices, to check memory for storage space, you need to, from the main screen, go to Options, and then to Status. On the Status screen there two fields that needs to be checked when viewing memory usage which are the File Free and File Total fields. The value in the File Total field displays the remaining storage space after loading items, such as the wireless transceiver, operating system, and basic applications. The value in the File Free field indicates the amount free data storage. When managing memory on your device, you will pay more attention to the File Free value because items, such as attachments, when saved to the device will decrease the value in the File Free field. An example of when the value in the File Total would change is when you perform an operating system upgrade as some point, and the newer operating system is larger than the current operating system, then the value in the File Total field would change accordingly.

    Please note that there are items pre-installed on your device, such as sample pictures and videos that affect the value in the File Free field. These items can be deleted if more storage space is needed. You should also be aware that at times, the value in the File Free field will display an incorrect value. If this occurs, you would need to reset the device by removing and reading the battery to correct this issue.

    If you have further questions or concerns, please write to us again through www.VerizonWireless.com. We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless.

    =====

  8. #38
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Just to add to this discussion, I've talked to Verizon and RIM and waiting for each to get in touch with me tomorrow. Everyone seems surprised by this (spoken to 3 people at Verizon and one of their kiosks just opened 5 new boxes and they ALL show 48 mb of flash memory and only 20 mb free, and the RIM rep claimed to have not heard about this) and no one has an answer. I was actually told to return mine after there was an issue and it was attributed to lost memory (after I called Verizon and explained the problem I was having and asked if it should only have 48 mb of memory and they told me no). I now think my previous issue was a software glitch (that can't yet be explained -- 1 email account and my whole call log got wiped), but who knows. I do know my 7130E had 64 mb of memory and even after having lots of apps loaded and full of messages and attachments and pics, it still has 33 mb of memory free. My new "upgraded" 8830 has 7 mb free and I've loaded only 2 applications (a whopping 657k of space that they took). Their answer better not be "buy a SD card." And wouldn't this fall under some legal issue and false advertising? Both RIM and Verizon report 64 mb of memory. And what is with the bloat-ware -- only 20 mb available out of the box? I had more than that free (33 mb) on my 7130E after I installed everything and had email data on there. Sorry for the rant -- I wasted an hour at a kiosk, an hour on the phone with Verizon and another 15 minutes with RIM trying to convince them that I shouldn't need to get the BES admin involved in any of this (she wanted to put me through to tech support but only under our contract) to answer a simple question about their hardware. Finally, I asked if she could talk to her own company's tech division for me since I doubted she needed a support contract to do that and maybe, as a customer service "favor", find out what's going on and share accurate information with the customer. I got a case number and a promise that I'll get a response in 24 hours. We'll see, and bracing for, at most, a "we don't know" response. I'll share anything I find out. Meanwhile, I need to steer my colleagues and 500+ users away from this device (that I really like otherwise, but can't recommend if it's falsely advertised and running low on memory).

  9. #39
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    I am, as you can see from my earlier posts, also very concerned about this memory situation. However, having only 7 MB free after two apps points to another problem, which is memory that is not allocated correctly. I installed Handmark Express and during the installation it consumed 16 MB of data. There was not possible explanation on why this occurred. I deleted the application and all the memory returned. I then reinstalled it, and it only consumed 1 - 2 MB. Go figure. Without the tools to view what is in memory, we are flying blind. But with only two applications, you might want to try deleting one, checking memory, then deleting the other, and checking memory again. What are the programs? I would be willing to install them on my device and record how much memory they consume and see if it is consistent with what you see.

    The SD card does not seem of much use on the 8830 right now, other than for ringtones and music. The device will not allow applications to put their working files on the card, at least not yet. I got 2 1/2 weeks left to decide whether or not to keep this phone. Hopefully, we will get answers soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjbarry21
    Just to add to this discussion, I've talked to Verizon and RIM and waiting for each to get in touch with me tomorrow. Everyone seems surprised by this (spoken to 3 people at Verizon and one of their kiosks just opened 5 new boxes and they ALL show 48 mb of flash memory and only 20 mb free, and the RIM rep claimed to have not heard about this) and no one has an answer. I was actually told to return mine after there was an issue and it was attributed to lost memory (after I called Verizon and explained the problem I was having and asked if it should only have 48 mb of memory and they told me no). I now think my previous issue was a software glitch (that can't yet be explained -- 1 email account and my whole call log got wiped), but who knows. I do know my 7130E had 64 mb of memory and even after having lots of apps loaded and full of messages and attachments and pics, it still has 33 mb of memory free. My new "upgraded" 8830 has 7 mb free and I've loaded only 2 applications (a whopping 657k of space that they took). Their answer better not be "buy a SD card." And wouldn't this fall under some legal issue and false advertising? Both RIM and Verizon report 64 mb of memory. And what is with the bloat-ware -- only 20 mb available out of the box? I had more than that free (33 mb) on my 7130E after I installed everything and had email data on there. Sorry for the rant -- I wasted an hour at a kiosk, an hour on the phone with Verizon and another 15 minutes with RIM trying to convince them that I shouldn't need to get the BES admin involved in any of this (she wanted to put me through to tech support but only under our contract) to answer a simple question about their hardware. Finally, I asked if she could talk to her own company's tech division for me since I doubted she needed a support contract to do that and maybe, as a customer service "favor", find out what's going on and share accurate information with the customer. I got a case number and a promise that I'll get a response in 24 hours. We'll see, and bracing for, at most, a "we don't know" response. I'll share anything I find out. Meanwhile, I need to steer my colleagues and 500+ users away from this device (that I really like otherwise, but can't recommend if it's falsely advertised and running low on memory).

  10. #40
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Well, I read some more posts and did a reset (hate pulling the battery out -- whoever designed the battery cover ought to be shot) and low and behold, I had 13 mb of memory available after that (almost double the 7 mb I had earlier) -- of course, still well shy of the 33 mb I had free on my 7130e and I had at least half a dozen more apps installed and had all the same email accounts connected.

    If I wanted to have a memory leaking piece of junk, I would have bought a Windows based phone. I can't believe I'm now expected to remove the battery on a regular basis as a "workaround" to the loss of memory. I'm now guessing that that's why my phone flipped out after the first 1.5 weeks of use -- it ran out of memory because I hadn't done a weekly battery removal (it chugged along fine till it lost the mail from one of the accounts AND lost all the call log data). I pulled the battery out after that and then reset the email account on the BIS. The call log is now retaining data again -- until it runs low on memory, I guess. I pulled the battery out of the 7130e about once every 3-4 MONTHS for little quirky things -- but now I'm looking at weekly as a preventive measure???

    As for the apps -- Google Maps and PocketDay Professional. I had both on my 7130e with no issues, but I did have different versions (think I had BB OS 4.1 on the 7130e -- I downloaded new versions of the apps to the 8830). So, we'll see. The BB Desktop software shows the apps as only taking up 657 k of space, but unsure how much data they have associated with them. Of course, if my 7130e could run them just fine and have 33 mb of free space on the unit, I'm betting those 2 apps didn't overload the 8830 -- it just doesn't know how to free up the memory and doesn't come with a sufficient amount to begin with. When I got the 7130e there were issues for the first month (turning off a bluetooth connected headset power cycled the BB) and then they came out with an upgrade to the OS that fixed it. I've only got a week left to decide whether to keep this or go back to my old 7130e till they figure out how to address all these issues. There are so many things I like about this phone and things I think are improvements, but I'm not sure I want the frustration.

    And, more than anything, I'm just irritated they haven't worked out the bugs AND they can't even seem to give out correct information on the device. I mean, should it really be this difficult to get a full and accurate answer to "how much memory does the device have?" -- from the seller (Verizon) or the manufacturer (RIM)? How can it be that NEITHER company can just answer the question (other than saying "it says it should have 64 mb; I'm not sure why you're seeing 48 mb or why there's only 20 mb available out of the box")? Didn't someone, somewhere actually design the thing and write down the details about the specs and tell the companies that emblazon their names on the things??? I know... asking way too much for anyone to share this with us lowly customers.

    Actually, just hoping a RIM or Verizon executive might be trolling the boards, see this, be EXTREMELY embarrassed about their company's lack of knowledge/support/customer service and actually look into this, light a fire under someone and just get a straight answer out to the rest of the world. You know, before we all get fed up with the silence or the uneducated responses that don't answer any of the questions and we end up returning the devices -- till they figure out what's going on or sell a better device. It's a shame. I was so looking forward to this phone and now it's starting to be more of a headache than any fun. And what happened to beta testers -- didn't they install apps or try running them full-tilt for more than 2 weeks between battery removals? Or did they see what we see and Verizon/RIM decided not to address the issues before the release??? I'd be ok with that if they would fess up and just say they're working on a fix. Acknowledge and address the issue instead of the constant "I haven't heard about this problem before" response I keep getting. A Verizon rep at a local store opened FIVE boxes to check on this for me today. They're not helping their own people by keeping quiet.

  11. #41
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    I have had success resetting the device and reclaiming memory via the following key strokes:

    ALT
    Right SHIFT (not the left)
    DEL

    This.will reset the 8830. Once it comes back do this process a second time. It then should offer the option to reset (in very small print). Highlight that option and press the trackball. It will take longer to return this time, but you should have recovered memory. This was also posted in another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjbarry21
    Well, I read some more posts and did a reset (hate pulling the battery out -- whoever designed the battery cover ought to be shot) and low and behold, I had 13 mb of memory available after that (almost double the 7 mb I had earlier) -- of course, still well shy of the 33 mb I had free on my 7130e and I had at least half a dozen more apps installed and had all the same email accounts connected.

    If I wanted to have a memory leaking piece of junk, I would have bought a Windows based phone. I can't believe I'm now expected to remove the battery on a regular basis as a "workaround" to the loss of memory. I'm now guessing that that's why my phone flipped out after the first 1.5 weeks of use -- it ran out of memory because I hadn't done a weekly battery removal (it chugged along fine till it lost the mail from one of the accounts AND lost all the call log data). I pulled the battery out after that and then reset the email account on the BIS. The call log is now retaining data again -- until it runs low on memory, I guess. I pulled the battery out of the 7130e about once every 3-4 MONTHS for little quirky things -- but now I'm looking at weekly as a preventive measure???

    As for the apps -- Google Maps and PocketDay Professional. I had both on my 7130e with no issues, but I did have different versions (think I had BB OS 4.1 on the 7130e -- I downloaded new versions of the apps to the 8830). So, we'll see. The BB Desktop software shows the apps as only taking up 657 k of space, but unsure how much data they have associated with them. Of course, if my 7130e could run them just fine and have 33 mb of free space on the unit, I'm betting those 2 apps didn't overload the 8830 -- it just doesn't know how to free up the memory and doesn't come with a sufficient amount to begin with. When I got the 7130e there were issues for the first month (turning off a bluetooth connected headset power cycled the BB) and then they came out with an upgrade to the OS that fixed it. I've only got a week left to decide whether to keep this or go back to my old 7130e till they figure out how to address all these issues. There are so many things I like about this phone and things I think are improvements, but I'm not sure I want the frustration.

    And, more than anything, I'm just irritated they haven't worked out the bugs AND they can't even seem to give out correct information on the device. I mean, should it really be this difficult to get a full and accurate answer to "how much memory does the device have?" -- from the seller (Verizon) or the manufacturer (RIM)? How can it be that NEITHER company can just answer the question (other than saying "it says it should have 64 mb; I'm not sure why you're seeing 48 mb or why there's only 20 mb available out of the box")? Didn't someone, somewhere actually design the thing and write down the details about the specs and tell the companies that emblazon their names on the things??? I know... asking way too much for anyone to share this with us lowly customers.

    Actually, just hoping a RIM or Verizon executive might be trolling the boards, see this, be EXTREMELY embarrassed about their company's lack of knowledge/support/customer service and actually look into this, light a fire under someone and just get a straight answer out to the rest of the world. You know, before we all get fed up with the silence or the uneducated responses that don't answer any of the questions and we end up returning the devices -- till they figure out what's going on or sell a better device. It's a shame. I was so looking forward to this phone and now it's starting to be more of a headache than any fun. And what happened to beta testers -- didn't they install apps or try running them full-tilt for more than 2 weeks between battery removals? Or did they see what we see and Verizon/RIM decided not to address the issues before the release??? I'd be ok with that if they would fess up and just say they're working on a fix. Acknowledge and address the issue instead of the constant "I haven't heard about this problem before" response I keep getting. A Verizon rep at a local store opened FIVE boxes to check on this for me today. They're not helping their own people by keeping quiet.

  12. #42
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    Glad I have the 8800

    Makes me glad I have an 8800. File Free: 33027784 Bytes, File Total: 63438848 Bytes. I have a fair number of applications loaded as well.

  13. #43
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    Re: Glad I have the 8800

    Yes, it doesn't make sense to me about the memory. Something is screwed up. A part of the issue is the 12 MB reserved for Multimedia, whether you use it or not. At least our problems are giving others joy.

    Quote Originally Posted by temoore
    Makes me glad I have an 8800. File Free: 33027784 Bytes, File Total: 63438848 Bytes. I have a fair number of applications loaded as well.

  14. #44
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Ok... got a call back from RIM (but not Verizon -- shocking to all of you, I'm sure). I got the standard, no real answer response (from a different rep, though, who was only reading ticket notes and hadn't dealt with it directly). Something about the multilingual OS taking up a lot more space (and it was Verizon who installed that version on them) and then again about the multimedia. But, I speak Spanish and occasionally want the ability to use other languages on here (I even know how to flip to the spell check in another language already)... My major concern is if you're going to design something that requires more space, have it come with more space. No one sells a Windows XP/Vista machine with a 10 gb hard drive and says to uninstall Windows components to free up space. They sell them with bigger hard drives. If this monster BB OS takes up 3-4 times as much space, then build it with more. And please don't ADVERTISE everywhere (including through Verizon) that it has 64 mb of memory when no one can see anything close to that. At least say "64 mb of space, but only 48 viewable to users and only 20 mb free out of the box" -- something remotely accurate and viewable. If we'd all known this up front, there'd be no added frustration that comes with just trying to get a straight answer about specific specs (which, by the way, the agent/ticket with RIM mentioned nothing about actual memory or RAM on the system -- think they're backing away from stating actual numbers now and blaming Verizon for loading the multilingual version). And on top of the lack of installed memory, now it appears there's a leak (which, I can now free up without battery removal -- thanks for the posts, guys!) that sucks the memory dry. I'm more and more convinced that that's why mine flipped out after 1.5 weeks of continual use and no reset. Again, I shouldn't have to do preventive resets on a BB. It just feels WRONG. I work on Windows pcs all day -- this was my reprieve from the "restart fixes all unknown programming issues/flaws."

  15. #45
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    Re: BB 8830 - What happened to my memory?

    Thanks for posting on this topic! I was just about ready to purchase an 8830 from Verizon when I came across this posting. My only other experience with a Blackberry has been the 8100 (Pearl) on Cingular. I loved the 8100 but Cingular coverage in my area was less than stellar compared to Verizon.

    Does the 8830 have less RAM available to the user than the 8100? The reason I ask is the 8100 is all I have to compare against. This whole issue of low RAM smells a lot like the Treo 700w issue Verizon just went through 1-2 years ago. You would have thought they would learn from it.

    Can anyone offer a comparison of the 8830 vs the 8800 offered on other networks? Does the smaller amount of RAM have a noticeable impact?

    I agree with the earlier posters disappointment. The whole reason I wanted to go with a Blackberry was to not have to worry about issues such as this. Thanks.

    - dtg

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