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Originally Posted by Aroc * two-way reconciliation of deletions and read/unread status is often not ... General Blackberry forum

  1. #16
    takeshi's Avatar
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    Re: Very upset with RIM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aroc
    * two-way reconciliation of deletions and read/unread status is often not available (may be possible under BIS 2.3 with Yahoo on some carriers, maybe). Really, I see this as the biggest drawback of BIS.
    This was the same with BIS 1.8 and POP accounts. You could reconcile to BIS but not to the POP server. I suspect that IMAP accounts were in the same boat as well.

  2. #17
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    Re: Very upset with RIM!

    Quote Originally Posted by takeshi
    This was the same with BIS 1.8 and POP accounts. You could reconcile to BIS but not to the POP server. I suspect that IMAP accounts were in the same boat as well.
    Actually I was comparing the functionality of solely using the *.blackberry.net account vs. a modern POP/BIS implementation. It's been a while, but I believe if you logged onto Web Access of your *.blackberry.net BWC account and deleted a message from the Web Interface, the delete propegated to your handheld (meaning two-way reconciliation). I thought the POP functions of 1.8 and prior to be too limited to be useful. POP was much better on BIS 2.0 and later. You are right about the reconciliaton of POP and BIS 1.8. It wasn't good either.

    FWIW, and it is not optimal, I'll sometimes read email from hotmail or my *.cox.net ISP account (10-20 messages per day and 3 per month, respectively) on my PC, but actually perform the deletes from the handheld. That way I only have to delete each message once. It's not optimal (I'd prefer two-way reconciliation, of course) but it works. Though normally I would just read and delete the email all from the handheld (which is why I have the device in the first place).
    Domino 6.5.6FP1 | BES 4.1.4

  3. #18
    Rcbjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aroc
    . . .
    Really BIS 2.x is good for you. The hard part is making the transition to a permanent email provider (like yahoo, gmail, hotmail, POP, Outlook Web Access, etc), then associating those accounts with BIS. I'm been setting up people with Gmail or Yahoo integration with BIS, some of which who had BWC 1.8 before. Most see this as a step forward and actually see the new benefits with Yahoo/BIS or Gmail/BIS over the old *blackberry.net/BWC client. That pathetic 25MB quota with no antispam controls is now a distant and fading memory.
    No BIS 2.x is not good for me. I don't use Yahoo email and no one has answered a question concerning the BB, Yahoo email and folders. Can you create a folder in a similar manner as BIS 1.8 the file messages from your BB in those folders and have them not show up in the message folder but still be available, including attachments, as you can with BIS 1.8?
    Good bye BWC 1.8! R.I.P. You no longer have a useful purpose in today's modern world. Pretty soon we will have two-way reconciliation on BIS and the death of BWC 1.8 will be complete.
    Again you are totally wrong here. I need, or at least want to be able to manage my email that comes to my BB. I use folders in the same way I use my outlook at home and at work. The inbox should only have those messages that still have an active reason to remain visible. All others should be stored in folders for future reference. Those that won't be needed for future reference should be achieved or deleted.

    When I find an alternate solution to manage email messages properly on the BB, then I'll transition out of BIS 1.8. And if RIM/AT&T force me off without a replacement for that capability, the my reason for having a BB goes away.


    Rcbjr
    ~via My BB Curve (wap.pinstack.com)~

  4. #19
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    Re: Very upset with RIM!

    I'm impressed Rcbjr. I think you found the one feature (filing in folders) which is omitted from BIS 2 that I can't dispute you on. In fact, I agree with you. I finally realized a couple weeks back that I had been updated to BIS 2.3 (not sure 100% when the switchover occurred at) since the logon page for AT&T BIS was different. I had been wanting the File action for HoTMaiL, and much to my disappointment, it still wasn't there. I even went ahead and deleted and re-added the HoTMaiL account in BIS (new service books, et al) and still the File action was not there. Ditto for Y! and Gmail.

    Sadly straight from the horse's mouth, this feature will is not planned to be implemented:

    as posted on http://www.wireless.att.com/business...is-upgrade.jsp

    Some BIS 1.8 customers may have concerns that certain features supported in BIS 1.8 are not present in BIS 2.3. Those BIS 1.8 features have been replaced with equivalent or enhanced features, or the need for the feature has declined, as detailed below:
    BIS 1.8 supports access to your BlackBerry BIS mailbox from a desktop computer web browser. When BIS 1.8 was launched, some ISP email providers did not offer webmail access to subscriber mailboxes. In the intervening years, almost all ISP email providers now support webmail access to subscriber mailboxes; therefore, BIS 2.3 does not support access to your BlackBerry BIS mailbox from a desktop computer web browser.
    BIS 1.8 supports user-created folders within the BlackBerry BIS mailbox. In BIS 1.8, email from all sources was delivered to a single inbox; therefore, some users created personal folders to sort mail from each ISP through which they had a mailbox. Since BIS 2.3 supports separate icons for each individual email account, there is no longer a need to separate out email from different accounts using folders. After a migration to BIS 2.3, folders will exist on the device for 30 days only.
    BIS 1.8 limited the amount of email that each user could store. Therefore, some subscribers managed their BIS mailboxes manually using their devices, while others did so using desktop computer web browser access. BIS 2.3 supports unlimited storage, with automatic mailbox management via a new auto-aging feature. Emails older than 30 days will automatically be deleted from your BIS 2.3 mailbox, and from your device. Note: these emails will not be deleted from the source ISP or personal email account mailbox; you will still be able to access these emails directly from your ISP or personal email account (for example, through your desktop POP3 email client).
    That was actually a nice feature of BIS 1.8 - although available in BES 4 - that is not present nor planned for BIS 2.x.

    And to be honest, if you're still operating on a 25MB quota, I'm amazed that you even have sufficient room to file messages and attachments. My power users used to blow through that quota in about 48 hours. I wasn't that bad, but I eventually closed my BWC account since I couldn't deal with the measely 25MB quota for business use (I need about 50-120 MB to work with since I keep about a 1000-2000 messages of historical stuff, which I do cull twice a year. I hardly store much past a couple days, but I can receive 30MB of stuff in one day without much trouble. Contrast that with our VP of Sales who goes through 1GB every 2-3 months - even after he deletes stuff he doesn't need).

    It does seem strange that filing to folders from the handheld (at least users without BES) is not available on BIS 2.x (As of yet, it seems!).

    And to a lesser extent I fight this at work with new users on BES. They expect that all of their old emails from 1995-2007 should be available from their BlackBerry. But that's a much more extreme case that what you are asking for.

    I don't think I'm "totally wrong" here. Many of the BIS 1.8 features have been supplanted with better alternatives. You're actually the first person I've seen use the File action for BWC/BIS 1.8. Most gag at the 25MB quota after a week or two when abandoned BIS 1.8 altogether. IMO, it was only with the huge quotas on BIS 2.x, that I became useful for many of my users. I know HoTMaiL has changed alot since BIS 1.x was mainstream, but I don't even get it to work effectively (enough for me) until BIS 2.0 came out. I still use an actual computer to manage much of my email work flows (personal and coporate). It always seemed like a PDA was just a little too limiting in one way or another.

    Aaron
    Last edited by Aroc; 07-26-2007 at 02:52 PM.
    Domino 6.5.6FP1 | BES 4.1.4

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    Lightbulb Re: Very upset with RIM!

    Me Zeeshan from Pakistan,

    I have a solution for you.....

    * Just create a hotmail or gmail account.
    * Forward a copy of mail to this address.
    * Then add your blackberry email address to this account to that you can set your sent from address to blackberry one.

    zeeshanatta@gmail.com
    Zeeshan Ahmad Bhatti
    Blackberry Engineer
    Mobilink, Pakistan
    zeeshanatta@gmail.com

  6. #21
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    Re: Very upset with RIM!

    Aaron, I don't need to have every tom, badword and harry's email that is sent to me show up on my blackberry. Only certain, important and time critical correspondants have my addresses that go to my BB. Therefore, I can easily manage my account and email messages such that I have no problem keeping under the 25Meg limit.
    And I usually have a clean message list when I open it. Only messages that still need action. And the 25 Meg limit is smaller than my work exchange accnt. limit of 20 Meg. (I'm not on the corp BES, my BB is personal.

    Rcbjr
    ~via My BB Curve (wap.pinstack.com)~

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