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hi, whats the deal with the 3G network? does it only exist in areas that ... General Blackberry forum

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    saladiro's Avatar
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    3g

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    hi, whats the deal with the 3G network? does it only exist in areas that have 3G coverage, or where ever there is an internet connection, if you phone is 3G capable, then you get it? I only know its super fast? is this true?

    is this what makes verizon phones able to watch tv

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    europamo's Avatar
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    Currently in the USA there are 3 types of networks, GSM and CDMA and iDEN

    CDMA-Verizon, Sprint, Alltell and a few others
    GSM-ATT, Tmobile and some smaller others.
    iDEN-Nextel(Sprint owned)

    GSM carriers that have 3G, well ATT has it deployed in select markts and TMobile is putting theirs up now.

    CDMA carriers have 3G(EV-DO) They tend to have better 3G coverage all over the country, but their devices are for the USA only except for the BB 8830, which can roam internationally on 2G networks.

    iDEN is for the Nextel network and they dont have 3G capabilities. Only a couple of models for them, the ones with attenna stubs.

    Also there is no current BB GSM model with 3G. The 9000 which is not out will have 3G for GSM networks.

    CDMA models have 3G.

    When you roam out of 3G coverage you get switched to the slower 2G speeds.

    As far as the Verizon and TV that is on select handsets(not BB) and yes, 3G helps to have mobile TV

    Hope that doesnt confuse you.
    Last edited by europamo; 04-08-2008 at 07:33 PM.

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    CybaCowboy's Avatar
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    "3G", which is the acronym for "third-generation" (as in third-generation mobile phone networks), is a new technology that is already established in most of the Western World, however North America is largely "behind the times" in this regard, and thus are only in the early stages of setting-up 3G networks...

    Sometimes 3G is referred to as "UMTS" (universal mobile telephone system), which is essentially nothing more than an alternative name for the same thing.

    Unlike "traditional" networks, which focussed largely on voice communications and messaging whilst mobile, the main focus for 3G/UMTS networks is both high-speed Internet access and mobile multimedia...

    Most 3G/UMTS service providers are strongly pushing video-calling (yes, just like in the movies!), mobile TV and/or video-on-demand, mobile music stores (similar to iTunes), and mobile broadband.

    Now, in most cases 3G/UMTS can simply be "bolted on top of" an existing network, however regardless of whether or not this is the case, it can take a service provider many months or even years (depending on the size of the 3G/UMTS network they want) to achieve the result they want, meaning that large sections of their network will have no 3G/UMTS coverage...

    To compensate for this, most 3G/UMTS service providers have configured their network so that you will automatically roam back onto their "traditional" network when no 3G/UMTS coverage is available - take note that this means you will also revert to "traditional" functionality, so don't expect to be able to use 3G/UMTS-specific features, such as mobile TV or video-calling.

    Most 3G/UMTS devices can be optinally configured to ONLY use 3G/UMTS (it's usually under the network settings), however if there is no 3G/UMTS coverage, you will have NO service at all.


    As I understand it, a number of the major networks in North America have committed to extensively expanding their 3G/UMTS networks this year (finally!), so you can expect to see an explosion of 3G/UMTS becomming available over the next 24 months...


    ~via my BlackBerry Curve 8300 (wap.pinstack.com)~

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    siccmade's Avatar
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    they will be coming out with 4g pretty soon here, i believe sprint is one of the first to incorporate it.
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    Oh yeah - most global 3G/UMTS networks use WCDMA as the technology of choice, which despite the name simularity, is COMPLETELY different to CDMA; WCDMA is largely based on GSM, and this is why it is much easier and cheaper for an existing GSM network to upgrade to 3G/UMTS - for the most part, the technology simply "bolts on top of" their exisiting network, whilst other networks (such as those offering CDMA) often have to start fron scratch.

    Some CDMA networks (those that have been upgraded to support EvDO) are "technically" 3G/UMTS because they share data speeds that are equal to or greater than "traditional" 3G/UMTS technologies, though most global service providers are in the process of, or already have ditched CDMA in favour of newer technologies - certain 3G/UMTS frequencies for example, offer similar coverage to CDMA, but with the benefits of 3G/UMTS...


    ~via my BlackBerry Curve 8300 (wap.pinstack.com)~

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    CybaCowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siccmade View Post
    they will be coming out with 4g pretty soon here, i believe sprint is one of the first to incorporate it.
    This is a BIG mis-conception - certain networks and manufacturers are "experimenting" with "4G technologies", though none have commited to actually building a "4G" network...

    I am aware of at least one case where a service provider built a small, proof-of-concept "4G network" - in other words, they built a SUPER-DOOPER fast network, just to show what they're capable of, and to show what potentially may be available in the long-term future.

    Some networks, such as Telstra Australia (which holds the Guinness' World Record for the fastest network) and certain networks in some Asian countries, are sometimes incorrectly branded as "4G" networks, when in fact they are nothing more than advanced 3G/UMTS networks that have been upgraded to support faster speeds...

    In short, there is still no agreed standard of technology choice for "4G" and the few "4G networks" that HAVE existed to date have been "prototype" networks using proprietry technolgies...

    Furthermore, WiMaxx, which has failed to take off in most of the world, is sometimes referred to as a "4G network", even though it technically is not.

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    archer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CybaCowboy View Post
    This is a BIG mis-conception - certain networks and manufacturers are "experimenting" with "4G technologies", though none have commited to actually building a "4G" network...

    I am aware of at least one case where a service provider built a small, proof-of-concept "4G network" - in other words, they built a SUPER-DOOPER fast network, just to show what they're capable of, and to show what potentially may be available in the long-term future.

    Some networks, such as Telstra Australia (which holds the Guinness' World Record for the fastest network) and certain networks in some Asian countries, are sometimes incorrectly branded as "4G" networks, when in fact they are nothing more than advanced 3G/UMTS networks that have been upgraded to support faster speeds...

    In short, there is still no agreed standard of technology choice for "4G" and the few "4G networks" that HAVE existed to date have been "prototype" networks using proprietry technolgies...

    Furthermore, WiMaxx, which has failed to take off in most of the world, is sometimes referred to as a "4G network", even though it technically is not.
    ---------
    Very well stated.

    I agree on all points!

    via BB 8310

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    CrazEtooN's Avatar
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    Pertaining to data only, I thought there was 4 actually data speeds/networks.

    GPRS/2G
    EDGE/2.5G
    UMTS/3G
    HSDPA/3.5G

    I am living under a misconception?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazEtooN View Post
    Pertaining to data only, I thought there was 4 actually data speeds/networks.

    GPRS/2G
    EDGE/2.5G
    UMTS/3G
    HSDPA/3.5G

    I am living under a misconception?
    You're MOSTLY right, but let me be a little more specific, and summerize the background of each...

    "2G" networks are usually based on GSM, however a few select countries and service providers offered CDMA instead...

    For data transmission, service providers offered CSD (circuit-switched data) or in layman's terms, the "mobile" equivalent of dial-up...

    This was not very popular because it was both ridiciously slow (initially around 9KB/s, and later 28KB/s - I may be slightly off though), and also highly expensive due to the way in which customers were charged - for the time spent online.

    Later on, a few different options were made available to networks, to increase data transmission speeds and lower usage costs...

    Initially a small number of networks offered HSCSD (high-speed circuit-switched data), which was a "faster" version of CSD - theoretically, HSCSD offered speeds slightly faster than dial-up, however it was still expensive because like CSD, customers were charged for the time they were online.

    Whilst HSCSD could be referred to as "2.3G", it is almost always thrown into the "2G" category.

    Most global networks however, went straight from CSD to the general packet radio service (GPRS), which despite only offering speeds similar to dial-up, allowed for customers to be billed based on the amount of data sent and/or received - this pricing structure proved to be MUCH, MUCH more popular than previous systems, and is the basis for virtually all data pricing currently in use today...

    Networks using the GPRS are considered to be "2.5G".

    At the time, some networks and manufacturers believed that 3G/UMTS was still some way off and in an effort to increase data speeds, the enhanced data for GSM evolution (EDGE) system was developed, however with the exception of North America and Canada, this technology never really took off because most networks skipped it completely in favour of the rapidly-aproaching "3G" technologies...

    Whilst it is sometimes called "2.7G", EDGE is usually thrown into the "2.5G" category.

    Which bring us to 3G.

    As was pointed out above, most global networks skipped EDGE in favour of newer 3G technologies, namely WCDMA (though a VERY small number of networks use CDMA2000 instead), which offered native data speeds up to a theoretical maximum speed of 384KB/s; although it's rarely referred to, WCDMA networks use the data packet access (DPA) system for data.

    As 3G/UMTS became more popular, the quest for faster speeds continued and eventually the high-speed, data packet access (HSDPA) system was unveiled - a upgrade that is theoretically capable of over 10 times the speed of cable Internet!

    Of course, no one is offering such speeds at this stage, but they say that on paper, the technology is capable of such speeds...

    Most networks are offering theoretical HSDPA speeds of 1.5MB/s, however many have recently upgraded to theoretical maximum of 3.6MB/s.

    To my knowledge, Telstra Australia is the only global network that exceeded this, offering a theoretical download speed of 7.2MB/s, and concrete plans to upgrade this to 14.4MB/s by the end of the year - Telstra officially holds the Guinness' record for the fastest network in the world because of this.

    So, in summary...

    * 2G = CSD, HSCSD
    * 2.5G = GPRS, EDGE
    * 2.7G = EDGE
    * 3G = WCDMA with DPA
    * 3.5G = WCDMA with HSDPA


    As 3G/UMTS is rolled-out in North America/Canada over the next year, there is a strong possibility that you'll skip 3G and go straight to 3.5G - probably the only benefit to leaving it 'til so late.


    By the way, I apologize for the lack of CDMA-related information - I know very little of this technology, and I do not want to make claims that are probably going to be incorrect...

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    Virex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer6 View Post
    ---------
    Very well stated.

    I agree on all points!

    via BB 8310

    that and wikipedia

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    CybaCowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virex View Post
    that and wikipedia
    No Wikipedia here mate - ten years in the industry as an employee and oh, tenty-ish years in the industry as a user.

    I've been an avivid fan of mobile telecommunications technology since the mid-80s when it was launched here and whilst I've recently changed industries for the long-term, I'll likely always "dip my toes in" and sit quietly in the shadows...


    ~via my BlackBerry Curve 8300 (wap.pinstack.com)~

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    Virex's Avatar
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    so then why arent you working for RIM now?

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    thats right... you listening ''RIM".... please think outside the "box" (North America)........ we are at 3.75G here now and still not even a 3G or 3.5 HSDPA blackberry out.

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    archer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CybaCowboy View Post
    No Wikipedia here mate - ten years in the industry as an employee and oh, tenty-ish years in the industry as a user.

    I've been an avivid fan of mobile telecommunications technology since the mid-80s when it was launched here
    -----
    Excellent response!
    Thanks for adding some style to this thread. Quite diginified I say...

  15. #15
    saladiro's Avatar
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    thanks all, this is great info, and was explained very well, i basically have a macro level question, if the new BB 9k comes out with this 3G capability, will it benefit me? I live in the suburbs right out side of NYC. is there a current may of the 3G network?

    I am not going to buy the 9k if i cant take advantage of 3G

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