Results 1 to 8 of 8

I've just bought a 7210 to play around with. I live in Shanghai, China. I ... RIM Handheld OS forum

  1. #1
    shanghai_loz's Avatar
    shanghai_loz no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4

    Question Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    Advertisement



    I've just bought a 7210 to play around with.
    I live in Shanghai, China. I have GPRS available in my service plan.
    China Telecom doesn't offer BlackBerry service just yet (although its coming).

    Can I get it working by myself?

    I figure that i'm essentially just missing service book entries, in order to setup wireless access using GPRS.

    I know that I need to configure GPRS in Options / TCP -> AP Name cmnet *and* that it needs service book entries. Without those its not going to work.

    From what I can see, this might just be a matter of either:

    Option 1) exporting the relevant service book entries from another working device to an ipd file, and importing them to my device. (and possibly changing parts of the files to conform to my providers setup).
    This should be pretty straightforward as the ipd file spec is on the blackberry site.

    (Anyone want to send me an ipd with service book entries in to test? The more the better, as then I compare between providers and find out the relevant byte values of the files)

    Option 2)

    I was reading in the forums that:

    If your on a bes or redirector you have to either hook it up to a computer with direct access to your email and re create an encryption key or go to your security screen and on the very bottom you'll see an it policy just select it and thers an option to wirelessly generate an encryption key. That's only if your on a 4.1 bes though.
    From what I assume, this would mean that I can generate valid service book entries if I setup BES on an Exchange Server + 2003 Server setup, and sync to that.

    Am I correct?


    Am I on the right track, or is this a waste of time?

    Cheers,

    Lawrence / www.shanghaiguide.com

  2. #2
    Treo700's Avatar
    Treo700 no está en línea Stack level 3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    222

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    No, end of story. No if and or buts about it nor is there any work around. BlackBerry's require a specific BlackBerry Data Plan as they communicate through RIM servers, generic GPRS won't do anything for you. With no BlackBerry Data Plan all you have is voice and SMS, period.

  3. #3
    hayden's Avatar
    hayden no está en línea Stack Mod
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    PIN/ID
    ask
    Posts
    12,440

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    Unfortunately none of the above will be able to work. Service books can only be installed OTA for each vendor ID. With that said I won't tell you to stop trying. Where there's a will there's a way so you never know.

    Still, even if you do manage to import service books etc you'll need a carrier with Blackberry provisioned GPRS as regular GPRS will get a "Connection Refused" error.

    Keep us updated and welcome to Pinstack look forward to you getting service in China. You probably will have direct access to the 8707 quite soon unlike us.

  4. #4
    shanghai_loz's Avatar
    shanghai_loz no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    Ok.

    Further research shows me that I need to be seeing "GPRS" in the top of the signal bar rather than lower case "gprs", and thats not going to happen until the RIM PDP (packet data protcol) is working.

    For the uninitiated, it seems these are the status values available:

    GSM: voice only
    gprs: basestation supports data (which is what I get now)
    GPRS: RIM PDP present

    In order to use email, web yadda yadda i need to see GPRS in connectivity, and that isn't going to happen until China Telecom sets up their RIM pdp (coming soon...)

    So essentially, i'm getting connected to the China Telecom PDP fine - because i see gprs, but it won't go online because RIM devices *have* to go through the RIM PDP whether you use their email service or data.

    Would I be right in guessing that the service book tells the blackberry how to talk to the RIM pdp over the provider then?

    If so, I could probably hack the correct vendor id's in a working service book, to use my current provider.

    I know that they do have RIM connectivity here, as roaming users can use blackberry.


    Any thoughts on that direction?

    I wonder if they're going to use a separate apn for blackberry then here in China. That would make sense.

  5. #5
    wibbly's Avatar
    wibbly no está en línea Stack level 3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    221

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    I think most providers use a separate APN. You might be able to get apps than use the general APN to work, though...


  6. #6
    shanghai_loz's Avatar
    shanghai_loz no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    A quick read of the GPRS, PDP specs shows that access is granted at network points beyond my control, basing my access on the generated IMSI number (yeah its the TMSI thats sent, I know..) thats not going to work in my favour unless get a card from a roaming provider, or I hack together a SIM interface and generate correct, but faked data.
    As far as I can tell from a quick look - as a local user, I don't get the roaming privileges that other users get, so the SGSN isn't going to route me to the necessary GGSN to service me for BlackBerry RIM PDP.

    So, Treo700, you're absolutely right (although probably for different reasons than you envision).


    Looking at this, I wondering why BlackBerry went with a different PDP than standard GPRS, I'm guessing historical reasons or provider caused, or alternatively so they can be the microsoft of the whole equation, and control from A - Z...


    I guess this means the Blackberry will sit in the drawer until they start the service...

    At least I can setup the BES side of things for now, so I can setup email service when they do roll this out



    Reading material for those interested:
    http://www.eventhelix.com/RealtimeMa...ce_diagram.pdf
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP_context
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPRS_Core_Network
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI

  7. #7
    shanghai_loz's Avatar
    shanghai_loz no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    Follow up:

    Looks like it *is* (or was) possible to do this (albeit not on every provider).

    See http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=224098
    and http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/prin...7&page=3&pp=15



    1. Your SIM does not need to be Blackberry provisioned.
    2. Your SIM card MUST have a GPRS data plan (preferably unlimited)
    3. You must buy a 3rd party BES/MDS hosting service (starts at $10 per month)
    4. You will get NO BWC.
    5. Your push email will come from an Exchange mailbox instead rather than BWC.
    6. You do, get access to Internet apps such as WebMessenger.
    I may get lucky if I try the service book avenue assuming having the right Service Books will enable this for me for allowing connectivity over standard gprs, using my own BES.

    Then again, I may not, just depends how China Telecom have configured their GGSN's...

    So, in summation - it is possible technically, whether it works or not is just a political issue (as in did someone enable the relevant ports or not at the GGSN)

  8. #8
    Leadwest's Avatar
    Leadwest no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3

    Re: Is it possible to use a BlackBerry at all without provider support?

    Hi buddy, I am also in China, waiting eagerly for "China Mobile" to launch the BB data plan. Admire your strong technology background !

    Due to budget limit, i dare not imagine the expense of roaming service from Hongkong orange ...

    *^_^* 50/50 work/play with BB
    Keep up good work !

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •