+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By dushdavj
  • 1 Post By jfcooley
  • 2 Post By dushdavj
  • 2 Post By Delfim

You can view the page at http://forums.pinstack.com/content.p...speaking-Farsi... Smartphone News forum

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,737

    Article: Customer: Apple Store denied me iPad for speaking Farsi

    Advertisement




  2. #2
    dushdavj's Avatar
    dushdavj no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    PIN/ID
    Ask Me
    Posts
    2,283
    While discrimination against anyone based on age, sec, color, religion is absolutely wrong, and whom so ever is discriminated against should fight against any form of discrimination. However the employee of the Apple store may have been acting within the law but not for reasons of discrimination, there are currently embargos in place in America which stop certain items/ideas/technology being exported to specific countries from America, which may include certain computer systems, gyroscopes which can be used in guidance systems etc. I do not know if IPads are part of this technology, but I do know that when I worked in the US I had to be very aware of these laws and in fact as a US citizen it is also necessary to be careful about places one travels to.

    The reason I am making this comment is just to point out that not everything is necessarily as it seams and information reported may not always be providing us with all the facts. Read articles investigate be inquisitive and don't believe just because it is in your favorite newspaper, tv channel etc, especially in this coming election year
    srl7741 likes this.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,737
    Very good point Dave

  4. #4
    Delfim's Avatar
    Delfim no está en línea Stack Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    PIN/ID
    Nope!
    Posts
    14,886
    I know for a fact that racial discrimination, of any form, including xenophobia (similar, but different to racialism) is condemnable. The argument of sanctions, industrial and economical, should be left for the government and the major industries to decide on.
    These women were speaking Farsi? Chinese, Korean? Its not up to us to decide. They were in the country, so obviously all safety procedures, including scrutiny if they were tourists or immigrants, had taken place. But heck, these women in question were even US citizens!
    I'm sorry but I've seen too many things happen of this sort.
    And it shouldn't.
    And just to add. If Apple has an official Apple centre in Iran and sell their products there, assumedly with Apple and US government knowledge, what right had a individual to take it upon himself to be so discriminatory?
    Hence this problem runs deeper.
    Last edited by Delfim; 06-20-2012 at 11:57 AM.

  5. #5
    dushdavj's Avatar
    dushdavj no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    PIN/ID
    Ask Me
    Posts
    2,283
    Del, Apple may have an official shop/center in Iran, but they may or may not sell all the items available in the US. Also the shop assistant may have been instructed what to sell or not to sell, as yet we only know one side of it. I know in my industry and obviously in the computer industry, government guidelines are issued as to what one can sell or cant sell, what one can export, what one can show to delegations from other countries (yes even taking a delegation on a show and tell round a manufacturing plant or performing a PowerPoint presentation can be looked at as a form or exporting information). Parts within a computer system may have export restrictions upon them, which might be the reason why certain computers are only launched in certain countries.

    In the end it will also depend if the person had informed the Apple employee that they wished to export the item, I do agree that if one just looks at the report it appears that the employ was most definitely wrong as the implication is he made the decision based on them speaking Farsi, however I do wonder if he was able to distinguish between them speaking Farsi or Hindi, or any other language from that region, I could probably recognize Hindi, but I personally would not be able to distinguish any other language, similarly just by looking at someone I do not believe you would be able to identify if they were American Citizens, what they ethnic background is or any other pertinent information. So how did the employee know what they wanted to do with the item and decide not to sell it? As I said I believe there is much more to it than is being reported and I will not rush to judgement based on a published article.

    The press will report things with a bias to show what they want to, in this case they may be trying to show that there is a discrimination problem, (which of course there may well be), if there is then it should be dealt with.
    Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful, and optimistic. And we will change the world. - Jack Layton (1950-2011)
    Blackberry PlayBook 64GB Nokia 1020, Microsoft Surface PRO 2

  6. #6
    dushdavj's Avatar
    dushdavj no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    PIN/ID
    Ask Me
    Posts
    2,283
    Check this out http://www.exportlawblog.com/archives/4155 Here it states that the Apple or any other company selling similar items can sell them to an Iranian who is legally in the US, unless he has reason to believe the item would be exported to Iran. The lady in question stated in the article that she intended to send the item to her cousin in Iran.

    This is the problem with an embargo it never really hurts the government of the country the embargo is against but it most definitely hurts the people of that country. While I do not particularly agree with these things, governments have issues with governments of other countries ideologies in other regions, and embargoes are put in place, we are forced under penalty of imprisonment to abide by our laws. It is not an excuse that you sold the item to a company/person assuming that it would not be exported, you are supposed to check to ensure it is not exported.
    Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful, and optimistic. And we will change the world. - Jack Layton (1950-2011)
    Blackberry PlayBook 64GB Nokia 1020, Microsoft Surface PRO 2

  7. #7
    Delfim's Avatar
    Delfim no está en línea Stack Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    PIN/ID
    Nope!
    Posts
    14,886
    Thanks Dave. Its illucidating.
    Edit: Just removed content. I meant it as a policy joke but it might not be perceived as such. Sorry.
    Last edited by Delfim; 06-20-2012 at 02:30 PM.

  8. #8
    dushdavj's Avatar
    dushdavj no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    PIN/ID
    Ask Me
    Posts
    2,283
    I had actually put a lot more in my original posting regarding items which were badly reported IMO specifically to stir up racial problems and caused major demonstrations, however I removed it before posting as I felt it was still an ongoing sensitive subject. I truly miss the days when I was growing up and believed (wrongly I think) that the press reported things from a totally unbiased point of view. My bubble was burst when I moved overseas and saw a report on BBC which I always considered to be unbiased about the country I was living in, showing it to be exploiting the poor, with everyone really unhappy, the area of the report was down the road from where I lived and the cameraman and reporter and angled the camera to show a particular point of view and have interviewed an extremely small minority rather than talking to the majority. You see the same thing when they refer to riots or demonstrations the camera angle is taken either to make them look larger or smaller than they actually are to benefit the point of view of the reporter. Then take one more step and watch a complete speech by a candidate, then flip through the various channels and note how the speech has been edited to make the person look stupid, or make him/her look clever depending on whether they support the candidate or not. It gets really frustrating.
    Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful, and optimistic. And we will change the world. - Jack Layton (1950-2011)
    Blackberry PlayBook 64GB Nokia 1020, Microsoft Surface PRO 2

  9. #9
    jfcooley's Avatar
    jfcooley no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,479
    So we have 2 women who are from the Middle East working for us. They speak broken English but their native tongue is Farsi.

    I've had the chance to speak to them at length during breaks. The stories they tell about the Taliban are unnerving. I have to be careful when laying pallets down, not to drop them quickly but gently lay them down. The noise they make in the warehouse is similar to a gunshot. One get's very upset when she hears it. She played it off, but was in tears. I felt horrible.

    If I took the approach that because they were from a country that was infected (my words) with terrorists, so thus they are a danger, I would miss out on knowing some pretty wonderful people. I've gathered quite a bit from them, and their husbands about their culture, they're desire to have a better life in the States, and just them as people.

    Not entirely related to the OP, but in just knowing them, and knowing that this could happen to them, it irritates me.
    dushdavj likes this.

  10. #10
    dushdavj's Avatar
    dushdavj no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    PIN/ID
    Ask Me
    Posts
    2,283
    In my business I work with people from every country in the world and have probably traveled to 90% of them including several in the Middle East. There has been no comment in this post about terrorism which is another completely different subject. Traveling by plane the amount that I do, hijacking is always in ones mind, which is why I never object to being patted down, or the long security lines in an airport (I was lucky back in the '80s when I changed my flight and missed being on a hijacked plane because I took the earlier flight). Having said this I would most definitely agree with Jay that I have missed out on knowing some really great people if I had avoided people that were not the same color/religion as I am. We should all look at people as people rather than looking at how they dress, where they worship, what language they speak or what color they are, and I hope that they do not judge me because I appear to be a Caucasian.


    Now going back to the IPad business, if you jumped to the link I posted earlier you will notice that this was caused by an interpretation of the law, and I would suggest that the lady in question may have asked about not paying the tax on the item, or asked if the IPad would work in Iran, as she was sending it to her cousin (of course now I am reading into the possible situation). So the important question to ask in this case is "Did the store know the item was to be exported to Iran?" If the answer is yes then according to the law the store may have been in trouble for selling it, and they may have chosen to avoid any trouble by refusing to sell the item. If the answer is no, then the store had no right to refuse to sell the item. The case could be argued that the fact the lady was ethnicity was Iranian would give them cause, however her citizenship was American so the cause is negated and if she later decided to send the item to her cousin without the store knowing then it she would have to navigate the legal system.


    Thankfully whilst I also have to be aware of sanctions when working with people from various countries, and traveling to these countries I do not have to worry about buying and selling of small items, I have however been in situations where I have had the serial numbers of the computers I use written in my passport to ensure that I brought them back with me.
    srl7741 and jfcooley like this.
    Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful, and optimistic. And we will change the world. - Jack Layton (1950-2011)
    Blackberry PlayBook 64GB Nokia 1020, Microsoft Surface PRO 2

  11. #11
    Delfim's Avatar
    Delfim no está en línea Stack Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    PIN/ID
    Nope!
    Posts
    14,886
    One great thing about living, studying and working in South Africa was the great cosmopolitan atmosphere it had. Especially Johannesburg. There were very well organized communities, Portugal, Greece, Italy, lebanon, Hungarian, Spanish, French and then the UK had all of them mixed into it too, the Irish, the Welsh, English and Scottish. Now throw into this mixture the Indians (remember that Ghandi lived there and studied law in South Africa), From Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc. If that wasn't enough, and because I used to make a point of knowing everything about their culture and (got mixed up radically wrong with the political system there in my varsity years) we had 16 black tribes living amongst us, the Xhosa, the Zulu, the Shona, the Venda, Swazi, Pedi, Sotho, ... I could go on.
    I tell you guys, what an experience. What an education. What an eye-opener.
    How humble one feels. Very, very humble.
    dushdavj and jfcooley like this.

  12. #12
    CombatGOD's Avatar
    CombatGOD no está en línea Stack level 2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    21
    While your comments are all warm and caring. We're at war!! Don't forget that. The first step is to take action at home. If these women were from Iran I'm sure that they know we have a embargo against that country. Don't be surprised if you things like this happen to you. How are we to know that they wouldn't be shipping something over there? Would rather hurt someone's feelings than be PC and be wrong. Good on the Apple employee I say.

    Semper Fi

  13. #13
    jfcooley's Avatar
    jfcooley no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,479
    Quote Originally Posted by CombatGOD View Post
    While your comments are all warm and caring. We're at war!!
    Maybe it's the warm fuzzies distracting me, but I searched and searched and I just can't find any reference to an ongoing war with Iran. Please point me to the date/time the US declared war on Iran.


    Don't forget that. The first step is to take action at home.
    Yes, it is isn't it? Just like the camps for the Japanese Americans (PC..oh nooooz) after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. That worked out real well didn't it? I'm lazy so I'll just quote Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanes...can_internment

    "Japanese-American internment was the relocation and internment by the United States government in 1942 of about 110,000 Japanese Americans and Japanese who lived along the Pacific coast of the United States to camps called "War Relocation Camps," in the wake of Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.[1][2] The internment of Japanese Americans was applied unequally throughout the United States. All who lived on the West Coast of the United States were interned, while in Hawaii, where the 150,000-plus Japanese Americans composed over one-third of the population, an estimated 1,200[3] to 1,800 were interned.[4] Of those interned, 62% were American citizens.[5][6]"

    Bold is mine. Kinda makes you wonder though, maybe we should just jump up and intern not only those that are here legally (having completed and received Visas) but those that are citizens of your country as well. Where do we stop? Perhaps begin searching through family histories ferreting out anyone that has any Middle Eastern blood and sending them to camps as well. Maybe we only allow "Pure Americans" into our military? Does this line of thinking sound familiar? Dangerous?

    If these women were from Iran I'm sure that they know we have a embargo against that country. Don't be surprised if you things like this happen to you. How are we to know that they wouldn't be shipping something over there? Would rather hurt someone's feelings than be PC and be wrong.
    And how do you know they were? Since we are NOT at war with Iran why suspect everyone? If it is so critical we keep our amazing tech out of "their" hands, why would Apple suggest she buy one online?

    Good on the Apple employee I say.
    I would agree to the extent that he was doing his job as described and would risk termination otherwise. I'd be curious as to the employees feelings towards what had to be done. In this economy I wouldn't want to see anyone out of work.

    Semper Fi
    If you are indeed a Marine, than thank you for your service. I'll pray for you and those with you. I will, however, never agree with this line of thinking.

    Respectfully,
    jay

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
  •