Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

So as usual I am late to the party and didn't find out about this ... General Smartphones forum

  1. #1
    JavaBratt's Avatar
    JavaBratt no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    548

    Thumbs down Mobihand, this means war!

    Advertisement



    So as usual I am late to the party and didn't find out about this until last night, but to say the least I am beyond LIVID! For those who are also late getting this information, here's a brief breakdown...

    Last year Mobihand was falling way behind on paying their vendors, and not paying some at all. During this time our products were still being sold and I imagine Mobihand was still receiving their commission of these sales even though we weren't being paid for our products (they were). Then this past September, with numerous vendors still not having been paid, Mobihand without warning filed Chapter 7 Bankruptcy claiming 235 creditors (myself included although my vendor name is misspelled). While doing all this in complete secrecy, they also completely disabled the website where we access our vendor accounts thus preventing us from seeing what we made, what we're owed etc. As far as I am concerned, their filing Chapter 7 was nothing more than a way to legally get away with embezzlement because they absolutely had no right to continue selling OUR products knowing full well THEY would be the only ones to see any of the profits.

    So as the title says, this means war and I need all the advice I can get right now because I personally will not let this go.

    Any advice, thoughts?... Any direction at all that can be given to me right now would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks in advance to those who reply!
    iPhone 5C | iOS 7.0.4
    iPad 3 - 32GB | iOS 7.0.4

    Theme Support Info

  2. #2
    Delfim's Avatar
    Delfim no está en línea Stack Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    PIN/ID
    Nope!
    Posts
    14,886
    That sucks to know. I wish I could be helpful, sorry I can´t. Not out here and totally ignorant of your Chapter 7 legal mumbo-jumbo.
    Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.

  3. #3
    jfcooley's Avatar
    jfcooley no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,479
    Hmmm, besides sympathizing I can offer anything. Beyond wrong. Should be something the vendors can do.

  4. #4
    JavaBratt's Avatar
    JavaBratt no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    548
    Thanks for the replies delfim & jfcooley!

    This is legal mumbo-jumbo which I am trying to translate, but in a nutshell they filed a petition with bankruptcy court for the Bankruptcy Code (Chapter 7) providing for "liquidation", or more simply put, the sale of the debtor's (MobiHand) nonexempt property and the distribution of the proceeds to creditors (vendors). A chapter 7 bankruptcy case does not involve the filing of a plan of repayment as in chapter 13. Instead, the bankruptcy trustee (representative of the bankruptcy estate) gathers and sells the debtor's (MobiHand) nonexempt assets and uses the proceeds of such assets to pay holders of claims (creditors; AKA vendors) in accordance with the provisions of the Bankruptcy Code.

    So my understanding of this is that we (vendors) are screwed unless we as individuals sue them OR unless we get organized and file a class-action to sue as a group, but I'm not completely certain because the area of law I do know about relates to family court which is a whole different ball game
    iPhone 5C | iOS 7.0.4
    iPad 3 - 32GB | iOS 7.0.4

    Theme Support Info

  5. #5
    jfcooley's Avatar
    jfcooley no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,479
    Can you put pressure on them using the usual digital media outlets?

    Assets would only be the website and any monies that may have been onhand when they filed. Who the hell do they owe outside of vendors? Hosting I guess?

    How far under are they? You guys should Sue for the name and all open your vendor owned site.

  6. #6
    JavaBratt's Avatar
    JavaBratt no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    548
    Quote Originally Posted by jfcooley View Post
    Can you put pressure on them using the usual digital media outlets?

    Assets would only be the website and any monies that may have been onhand when they filed. Who the hell do they owe outside of vendors? Hosting I guess?

    How far under are they? You guys should Sue for the name and all open your vendor owned site.
    I tried today to tag them in a Facebook comment, but their Facebook page appears to be gone now because I couldn't find anything other than a profile, which doesn't do much good.

    As far as assets, I know they had the Mobihand website and the Mobireach vendor portal, both of which are gone. When it comes to the monies from these sites, your guess is as good as mine because it frankly doesn't make a lick of sense IMHO. The buyer pays them for the app, they in turn take their cut and forward the balance (eventually) to the vendor. Instead, the buyer paid for the app and the monies seemingly disappeared. And I can't imagine that hosting the apps was costing them more than the apps were earning.

    Nobody seems to know how far under they were, but I do know a couple vendors who are owed well over $1000. I know at one point they were two months late with one of my payments and another was six months late. But mind you I was only selling themes and in the 16 months I sold on there, I only ever received 3 payments (my first was on time), all of which were $140 or under. Those who were selling actual apps are owed several hundred to several thousand dollars though.

    For those who are like myself, that are only owed a couple hundred at most, it would cost more to sue them than the amount being sued for. So basically we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.
    iPhone 5C | iOS 7.0.4
    iPad 3 - 32GB | iOS 7.0.4

    Theme Support Info

  7. #7
    dushdavj's Avatar
    dushdavj no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    PIN/ID
    Ask Me
    Posts
    2,283
    The worse thing is even if you sue and win, which will cost money for lawyers etc, you may still never see any money. Especially if they don't have any. As you say dammed if you do dammed if you don't. That's the whole point about capitalism in America if you run a business and file bankruptcy your personal assets are protected. Not what you want to hear and it sucks if you are a creditor. I know there are small claims courts which are a cheaper option to sue through. The other option is to write to the press, and consumer groups etc
    Love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful, and optimistic. And we will change the world. - Jack Layton (1950-2011)
    Blackberry PlayBook 64GB Nokia 1020, Microsoft Surface PRO 2

  8. #8
    adeveloper's Avatar
    adeveloper no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    6
    The problem is that according to the law, all civil lawsuits are being dismissed and no one is allowed to file a civil lawsuit now.
    The only way for us is to try to sue for a criminal offense. Or at least try to report this as a criminal offense to some sort of authorities. I hope someone from the US can know better what to do and where to report this. I'm not familiar with us criminal laws, but in many countries it is not necessary to have an attorney to report an embezzlement or a similar criminal offense.

    I lost tens of thousands dollars, I'm also mentioned on the creditors' list. But the bankruptcy documents say that this is a "no-asset case", so I do not understand where all the money went.

  9. #9
    adeveloper's Avatar
    adeveloper no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    6
    JavaBratt, so far it seems the only purpose of their bankruptcy was to dismiss the civil lawsuits against them.

  10. #10
    adeveloper's Avatar
    adeveloper no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    6
    The fact that vendors with the biggest debts are from Europe or Asia (>10K) makes it very difficult to organize themselves.
    It is very easy for an american internet store to take all the money from foreigners and then declare bankruptcy.

  11. #11
    Delfim's Avatar
    Delfim no está en línea Stack Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    PIN/ID
    Nope!
    Posts
    14,886
    Can Mobihand's actions and subsequent Chapter 7 filing be construed as a premeditated action and therefore criminal?

  12. #12
    jfcooley's Avatar
    jfcooley no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    7,479
    Wouldn't it be? They had an agreement to keep 30% and that's it. The other 70% was never theirs. To me that is theft. I know bankruptcy throws a wrench in the works and no doubt a lawyer has helped them cover their butts, but theft is theft. Was the agreement entered into when a dev signed on only for Mobihands benefit?

    adeveloper, read your posts at Crackberry. Welcome to Pinstack. Wish you'd found us under better circumstances.

  13. #13
    JavaBratt's Avatar
    JavaBratt no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    548
    Sorry for the delay in replying, but I've been really sick with a fever since yesterday morning

    Quote Originally Posted by adeveloper View Post
    The problem is that according to the law, all civil lawsuits are being dismissed and no one is allowed to file a civil lawsuit now.
    The only way for us is to try to sue for a criminal offense. Or at least try to report this as a criminal offense to some sort of authorities. I hope someone from the US can know better what to do and where to report this. I'm not familiar with us criminal laws, but in many countries it is not necessary to have an attorney to report an embezzlement or a similar criminal offense.

    I lost tens of thousands dollars, I'm also mentioned on the creditors' list. But the bankruptcy documents say that this is a "no-asset case", so I do not understand where all the money went.
    Which is why I am so upset. By definition what they did should by all means be considered embezzlement. They were after-all entrusted with OUR money.

    Also, how were you able to view their documents? I've never been sent anything or been contacted in anyway. I can view them online, but I would have to pay a per byte charge for everything I view.

    Welcome to Pinstack by the way!! ;-)

    Quote Originally Posted by adeveloper View Post
    JavaBratt, so far it seems the only purpose of their bankruptcy was to dismiss the civil lawsuits against them.
    I believe that is the only reason they filed. They absolutely HAD TO see this coming. There were months where payments were severely late, during which time a great number of developers removed their products. So those of us who didn't, who attempted to stick out the hard times with them ended up getting punished. That's not right.

    Quote Originally Posted by adeveloper View Post
    The fact that vendors with the biggest debts are from Europe or Asia (>10K) makes it very difficult to organize themselves.
    It is very easy for an american internet store to take all the money from foreigners and then declare bankruptcy.
    Sadly this is true. We can't expect those outside the states to understand our laws when majority of us from the states don't even understand them.

    Quote Originally Posted by delfim View Post
    Can Mobihand's actions and subsequent Chapter 7 filing be construed as a premeditated action and therefore criminal?
    That I would like to know also because it's not like this happened overnight. There are other forums where it is clearly documented that they weren't paying their vendors on time months before this occurred. I will have to try to dig back through these other forums because I distinctly remember them publishing an article where Mobihand blamed their delay in payments on the fact that they were selling their company. Now what I believe to be nothing more than a smoke screen in hopes the remaining developers wouldn't remove their products as so many were doing at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfcooley View Post
    Wouldn't it be? They had an agreement to keep 30% and that's it. The other 70% was never theirs. To me that is theft. I know bankruptcy throws a wrench in the works and no doubt a lawyer has helped them cover their butts, but theft is theft. Was the agreement entered into when a dev signed on only for Mobihands benefit?

    adeveloper, read your posts at Crackberry. Welcome to Pinstack. Wish you'd found us under better circumstances.
    THAT is precisely why I keep throwing around the word EMBEZZLEMENT, because that is what they did. They were entrusted with developer money that we never saw, and now we're finding out after the fact that they're more than likely going to get away with it.
    iPhone 5C | iOS 7.0.4
    iPad 3 - 32GB | iOS 7.0.4

    Theme Support Info

  14. #14
    adeveloper's Avatar
    adeveloper no está en línea Stack level 1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by JavaBratt View Post
    Sorry for the delay in replying, but I've been really sick with a fever since yesterday morning



    Which is why I am so upset. By definition what they did should by all means be considered embezzlement. They were after-all entrusted with OUR money.
    There is a trustee, a trustee's attorney, a bankruptcy attorney. If there is an embezzlement, why don't they do anything? They have access to all financial documents.


    Also, how were you able to view their documents? I've never been sent anything or been contacted in anyway. I can view them online, but I would have to pay a per byte charge for everything I view.
    Online. Not a per-byte, but a per-page charge, it is very cheap.




    THAT is precisely why I keep throwing around the word EMBEZZLEMENT, because that is what they did. They were entrusted with developer money that we never saw, and now we're finding out after the fact that they're more than likely going to get away with it.
    Can we try to report a suspected embezzlement? Or rather suspected premeditated bankruptcy/bankruptcy fraud? Where?
    Emails seem to be unanswered.

  15. #15
    JavaBratt's Avatar
    JavaBratt no está en línea Stack Professional
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    548
    Quote Originally Posted by adeveloper View Post
    There is a trustee, a trustee's attorney, a bankruptcy attorney. If there is an embezzlement, why don't they do anything? They have access to all financial documents.
    My understanding is there is only the debtor (mobihand), the debtors attorney (Scott J. Sagaria), a trustee (a private individual or company that has been appointed; in this case E. Lynn Schoenmann), and an U.S. Trustee (an officer of the Justice Department). The way I see it, if MobiHand is dirty enough to go under he radar with this where their vendors are concerned, then it's quite likely that their financial records aren't completely accurate either and are going to reflect whatever it is they want them to. But that is only my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by adeveloper View Post
    Online. Not a per-byte, but a per-page charge, it is very cheap.
    Did you use PACER to see the documents? That is where I was directed and told it charge per byte based upon an algorithm. It didn't state an exact amount so I wasn't about to try it

    Quote Originally Posted by adeveloper View Post
    Can we try to report a suspected embezzlement? Or rather suspected premeditated bankruptcy/bankruptcy fraud? Where?
    Emails seem to be unanswered.
    I submitted a report today to the U.S. Trustee Program, which is an agency of the Department of Justice (DOJ), stating suspicion of bankruptcy fraud. In my report to them I did point out that by definition what MobiHand did was embezzle money from it's vendors. I received confirmation that my report was received, but it states on their website that it is DOJ policy that criminal investigations may not be disclosed, and therefore they will not confirm nor deny whether or not a case has been referred and/or investigated. If you want to try to file a report yourself, you can do so at the following link... REPORT SUSPECTED BANKRUPTCY FRAUD

    If I come across and/or hear anything else I will be sure to share it here
    iPhone 5C | iOS 7.0.4
    iPad 3 - 32GB | iOS 7.0.4

    Theme Support Info

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •