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Warning , a long read, but plenty of juicy details!!! Now that I have a ... BlackBerry GPS forum

  1. #1
    j llama's Avatar
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    Petition Carrier$ to "unlock" GPS on all devices (other carriers as well)

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    Warning, a long read, but plenty of juicy details!!!

    Now that I have a GPS enabled device, I want to be able to use the GPS functionality of my device without paying for it as stated by Ronald Reagon with the GPS Directive issued in 1983.

    How to enable GPS support on Verizon's website.
    http://dts.vzw.guided.atomz.com/exec...ss%20device%3F
    Not really sure what this does since I can't use my GPS!?!

    curious, I got Google-Happy
    Found this after a quick search on Google for : Verizon RIM GPS
    (from http://www.jkontherun.com/2007/07/verizon-gets-me.html)
    A letter from a RIM rep to a Verizon customer mad about his GPS not fully functional on his BB 8830.

    The BlackBerry 8830 smartphone houses a proprietary, autonomous GPS receiver. This receiver is able to calculate the handheld's location relying solely on GPS satellites with no input from cellular towers. While the device does have assisted GPS, i.e. A-GPS capability, it houses a "full" GPS system similar in nature to GPS systems used by GPS-only car kits and mobile devices. This is designed to be accessible by second- and third-party applications such as BlackBerry Maps, Google Maps, and TeleNav. Such programs do need a wireless data signal to download mapping information, though they can figure out where the BlackBerry is in terms of latitude and longitude with just the GPS signal.

    The BlackBerry 8830 smartphone as released by Verizon has had this "full" GPS capability disabled at a software level. Verizon has indicated that they plan to release their own proprietary GPS mapping solution at a later time; possibly VZ Navigator. AT&T and T-Mobile have both taken similar routes with their 8800 series handhelds; locking out GPS access for 3rd party programs and only enabling access to the built-in receiver to the TeleNav program that they sell themselves.

    If you would like Verizon to enable GPS functionality on the BlackBerry 8830, I suggest you contact them and advise them as much.

    Thank you again for contacting us, xxxx. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact us.

    Sincerely,

    XXXX (name removed to protect the innocent, lol)
    BlackBerry Customer Support
    Research In Motion Limited

    ******************************
    From RIM's site on the BlackBerry Pearl http://www.blackberrypearl.com/performance/#

    Take the stress out of travel. When you're driving or walking in a new city — or even just a new subdivision — you can always use the help of an experienced navigator. And with a BlackBerry® Pearl™ 8110, or BlackBerry® Pearl™ 8130 smartphone, you've got one, right in your pocket.
    With the built-in GPSą, and included BlackBerry® Maps application, you get turn-by-turn directions as you travel, so you can pinpoint where you are right now and where you want to be.
    Sorry, but now there's one less reason for being late.
    The BlackBerry Pearl 8110 requires Desktop Manager v4.3 or higher.
    ą Check with your service provider for supported services and features.
    GPS capabilities are available with the BlackBerry Pearl 8110 and BlackBerry Pearl 8130.
    (end quote)

    more here: http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices...d=H0,C101,P625
    *****

    A little bit of history for everyone...
    from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System
    Developed by the United States Department of Defense, GPS is officially named NAVSTAR GPS (Contrary to popular belief, NAVSTAR is not an acronym, but simply a name given by John Walsh, a key decision maker when it came to the budget for the GPS program).[1] The satellite constellation is managed by the United States Air Force50th Space Wing. The cost of maintaining the system is approximately US$750 million per year,[2] including the replacement of aging satellites, and research and development.

    Following the shooting down of Korean Air Lines Flight 007 in 1983, President Ronald Reagan issued a directive making the system available for free for civilian use as a common good.[3] Since then, GPS has become a widely used aid to navigation worldwide, and a useful tool for map-making, land surveying, commerce, and scientific uses. GPS also provides a precise time reference used in many applications including scientific study of earthquakes, and synchronization of telecommunications networks

    (from http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-e...0.5061609.html)
    In 1983, Soviet jet interceptors shot down a Korean Air civilian airliner carrying 269 passengers that had mistakenly entered Soviet airspace.
    Because crew access to better navigational tools might have prevented the disaster, President Ronald Reagan issued a directive guaranteeing that GPS signals would be available at no charge to the world when the system became operational. The commercial market has grown steadily ever since.

    Then I did a search for the "Presidential Decision Directive (PDD) on GPS"
    Found this site: http://www.spatial.maine.edu/~leick/news4.htm
    FACT SHEET - PRESIDENTIAL DECISION DIRECTIVE ON GPS (from 1996)
    Scroll down to policy guidelines and you'll see...
    We will operate and manage GPS in accordance with the following guidelines:
    1. We will continue to provide the GPS Standard Positioning Service for peaceful civil, commercial and scientific use on a continuous, worldwide basis, free of direct user fees.
    Article on Prez Bush renewing FREE GPS services in 2004
    (http://www.spacedaily.com/news/gps-04zzzzx.html)
    Which states:
    The new policy updates the foundation laid by the 1996 Presidential Decision Directive (PDD) on GPS. It maintains an unambiguous U.S. commitment to the essential principles of open access, free of direct user fees, for civilian users worldwide.
    *********

    Then I did a search on:
    Positioning, Navigation and Timing (PNT) Policy (http://pnt.gov/policy/)
    and found the jackpot.
    scroll down to III. Goals and Objectives
    (or just use CTRL F and type FREE)

    Provide on a continuous, worldwide basis civil space-based, positioning, navigation, and timing services free of direct user fees for civil, commercial, and scientific uses, and for homeland security through the Global Positioning System and its augmentations, and provide open, free access to information necessary to develop and build equipment to use these services;

    *****
    (from http://geography.about.com/od/geogra...logy/a/gps.htm)
    GPS is free to the world, developed and paid for by U.S. taxpayers through the U.S. Department of Defense.


    ^^ According to the quote from the Site above, I am already paying for GPS directly through my paycheck via my taxes that are paid to the Federal Government.

    To make a long story short, I would like ALL CARRIERS to immediately "unlock" GPS capabilties so I can use my GPS enabled BlackBerry as set forth under a Presdential Directive (signed by multiple Presidents) FREE of CHARGE.

    This post is part my own personal opinion and views from news articles, as well as Government websites.

    Thank you for your time.
    To all: feel free to spread this info around and or sign your name name below

    I actually enjoy Verizon since I started service with them recently, I just want my dang GPS.

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/f...tices/v710.jsp
    (^ ^ the last time people spoke out against a Verizon software blockout for bluetooth)


    ****
    Update Changed title from Verizon to CARRIER$
    It has been brought to my attention that this is in fact accross multiple carriers. This is just a way for them to make more money off of something we already pay for (through taxes to the Dept of Defense).

    So this means, some people are paying TWICE for GPS.

    If I am wrong here, someone please let me know.
    Last edited by j llama; 04-11-2008 at 06:51 PM. Reason: update
    BlackBerry® Certified Support Specialist

  2. #2
    lucky13mt's Avatar
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    I'm not a Verizon customer but you have my support

    -lucky13mt
    BlackBerry Rocks!<-Check it out!

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    europamo's Avatar
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    I think it sucks, they are just doing it to charge you something extra. I think what would be better is if you get actual signatures from people and collect enough across the country to present to Verizon. If people were not paying extra for the service then I am sure Verizon would just uncripple it.

    Send me a PM

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    j llama's Avatar
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    I am looking for specific info regarding which carriers have fully functioning GPS and which do not, any info would be great.
    BlackBerry® Certified Support Specialist

  5. #5
    j llama's Avatar
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    I am not positive what the date was the first GPS enabled BB went live
    (summer of 2007 ? ? ? )
    I have found the patent RIM was issued on: Jul 3, 2007 titled
    "Mobile wireless communications device comprising a satellite positioning"
    (from http://www.google.com/patents?id=Y3eAAAAAEBAJ also at USPTO.gov )
    scanning said document, (there is alot of info) I found such things as:


    12. A mobile wireless communications device comprising:
    a portable housing having an upper portion and a lower portion;a cellular transceiver carried by said portable housing;a cellular antenna carried by said portable housing adjacent the lower portion thereof and connected to said cellular transceiver;a satellite positioning signal receiver carried by said portable housing;a satellite positioning system antenna carried by said portable housing adjacent the upper portion thereof and connected to said satellite positioning signal receiver; andat least one electrically conductive director element carried by said portable housing in spaced apart relation from said satellite positioning system antenna and inductively coupled thereto for directing a beam pattern thereof skyward for receiving satellite positioning signals.******

    from these pics in the document, the GPS looks like it operates independent of the cell network, I am not sure. I will continue to research and report back
    http://www.google.com/patents?id=Y3e...ad=1_1#PPA3,M1
    BlackBerry® Certified Support Specialist

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    j llama's Avatar
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    Can somebody Digg this.
    ~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~

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    I'm with Alltel and they do not lock out the GPS, I am able to use it free of charge with Blackberry maps....

    I think that it stinks that carriers lock this out......thanks for all the info even though it's not an issue for me right now...it's still good stuff and I support you 100%
    Twitter? My Apps List

    Current SmartPhone: Motorola DROID Rooted, Running Project Elite v4

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    T-mobile doesn't lock there GPS either. When I had my 8800 I was using google maps blackberry maps and mapquest free of charge.

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    Nice! You definitely hit a sweet spot. I remember when I got my 8830 a long time ago. When I found out that the GPS was disabled I should've returned the phone. Period. I had researched that phone for almost 6 months before its release. And GPS was a key selling point.

    I suppose in essence I was saying to Verizon I think its okay that you cripple phones built in functionality just because I give you a check every month.

    I can tell with straight honesty that I called customer service everyday for almost two weeks trying to get a straight answer about the GPS. I even did those online chats at verizonwireless.com as well as talk to reps and other available sources. I had been working with wireless at the time and I finally came across a huge pile of bs that almost make want to switch carriers.

    Not that I would be able to quote it but basically it was an internal information release that stated why the GPS was disabled. It went along the lines of it not being safe enough according to verizon's standards. I just knew from that second that they would figure out a way to put VZNavigator on the phone and squeeze another $9.99 out of the customer.

    The quality of service Verizon provides in undeniable. But the continued handicapping of phones great features for "safety and security" has gone too far. The continued insinuation that consumers are low intelligence and need to be protected by our wireless provider is just over the top.

    All I want my wireless provider to do is provide wireless service. That's it. Everything else I want my phone to do I'll out source to the best out there (in my opinion). As in I'll buy the phone because of the features it has. And I'll choose my provider based on coverage and quality.
    I think we are all done hating our providers. I agree with this post 100% we need to stick up for what we want. ~via BB (wap.pinstack.com)~

  10. #10
    powerdog's Avatar
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    Is there any chance that someone is working on a VZW GPS unlock hack now, or does Verizon have some totally unhackable approach?

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    Do I smell a class-action law suit in the making?

    Seriously through that's bull.

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    j llama's Avatar
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    i remember reading a few days back that someone had opened the operating system and took a look at a few COD files related to GPS. I will see if I can find where I saw that.

    I still can't figure out how this even got started. If verizon (and other carriers) blocked the GPS, it would have been disabled by RIM perhaps. Unless the devices come "blank" from the factories in Mexico and Canada.

    At what step in the process does the operating system get loaded onto the device? At the factory itself, or then shipped to various carriers for the OS installation and Carrier branding?

    WE WANT GPS!!

    On a side note, I have no problem with companies like Telenav charging fees to use their maps and turn by turn voice, etc. But for the signal to be crippled without paying a carrier fee is just plan goofy


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    europamo's Avatar
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    my thing is, GPS should should work and the program I use should be my choice. I paid for the phone and I pay for the monthly use.

  14. #14
    j llama's Avatar
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    found an online petition
    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...ned.cgi?vzwgps
    so far 1246 signatures so far
    just signed it.

    There seems to be a a growing number of people set up across various Forums that are BlackBerry related. I think we should set up some type of WIKI for people to get info from that could be reached from all other forums perhaps.
    BlackBerry® Certified Support Specialist

  15. #15
    j llama's Avatar
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    There is a class action lawsuit forming over this. Contact The Cohen Lawfirm:
    jcohen@thecohenlawfirm.net

    From http://thecohenlawfirm.net/news.htm

    November 30, 2007

    THE COHEN LAW FIRM FILES CLASS –ACTION SUIT AGAINST VERIZON WIRELESS FOR DISABLING BUILT-IN GPS IN BLACKBERRY 8830 SMARTPHONES

    On November 30, 2007, The Cohen Law Firm filed a class action lawsuit against Verizon Wireless. The lawsuit, filed in the United States District Court for the Southern District of California, alleges that Verizon Wireless advertised, marketed and sold the BlackBerry 8830 Smartphone as having a built-in GPS. Without alerting its customers, Verizon Wireless disabled the GPS in the phones prohibiting users from using the GPS or from accessing third party navigation and tracking software. In order to partially re-activate the built-in GPS 8830 Blackberry 8830 users must subscribe to Verizon Wireless’ fee-based navigation and tracking service. You may view a copy of the lawsuit by clicking the following link: Verizon BlackBerry Class-Action Complaint (1MB PDF).


    *******

    WOW, I guess nothing happened from this yet though, I dunno.
    BlackBerry® Certified Support Specialist

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